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Onkyo M510 Which capacitor series?

F

fixitfelix

New Member
Hello,
I need to replace a few capacitors in my Onkyo M510 and am considering replacing them all now that I have the power amplifier open anyway. Does that make sense? If so, which types would you recommend? The original ones are Nichicon. I would like to buy this brand again, but I can't find all the values I need in the UKZ or UFG series (end of life). What is a current series that you would recommend? E.g. for the signal path, ...
Thanks!
 
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Currently, Nichicon capacitors from 1986 are installed.
More specifically:
- SE (M) approx. 80 pieces
- 7 yellow-black capacitors marked: (K), probably a low leakage type?!
- 1 capacitor of type CE.

Would you have any recommendations as to which current capacitors I could use to replace these? I have now read about Panasonic FR, Nichicon UKL, and WIMA MKS2 for capacitors smaller than 1uF?
 
Many possibilities, but I recommend UES and installing their shorter lead to the negative pcb holes. You will both lower distortion at increased volumes and reduce EMI/noise simultaneously. They only go up to about 1,000uF or so, then you will have to switch over. They're also bigger than polarized and don't always fit in tight spaces. After that, UKZ, UKW, UKA, RBD, UDB, BPS. For power filters, LKG, LKS, Vishay MAL series, Cornell 380LX series.

Try and replace polar 'lytics less than about 4.7uF or so with potted film or CBB types if possible.
 
Yes, they perform all the same functions as polarized including AC coupling and DC blocking but have lower distortion than polarized. However, they have higher ESR, leakage and impedance typically so you have to take that into account as well. However, I haven't really found a disadvantage to using them in terms of the actual sound they produce when compared to other polarized types offering better specs on datasheets. If you can obtain BP types using the copper-clad leads (like UES) they sound better than most other types I've tried (and I've tried all the different series people talk about here). UKZ polar types are also recommended and use the copper-clad leads as well, among others. My recommendation is stick to the 'Muse' series when possible (UES, UKZ). Not as much of a fan of UFG though. Everyone may have a different suggestion. This is just mine as it continues to evolve with the more information and feedback I get from experimenting and doing capacitor comparisons constantly. With each recap, the results of what I'm doing seem to improve and reach a higher performance threshold based off what I've found out in the past and how I apply it to the next project.
 
which ever series in the nichicon you end up with just be sure to buy them from a reliable source such as digikey or mouser. Too many fake nichicons are out there now.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. What do you think about using UES in the signal path and as coupling capacitors? Then, according to the service manual, where LL types are installed, UKL and Panasonic FR in the power supply? And for values less than or equal to 1 uF PP film capacitors. Although I think I often have space problems with the MKP2 series from Wima, for example.
I based the availability of the parts on Digijey.
 
+1 on the UES in the signal path and as coupling capacitors. You will obtain good results going with authentic Nichicon, Panasonic, Elna, Rubycon, Cornell, Vishay, Kemet, etc. from reputable vendors. Also, check out CBB polypropylene film or Panasonic ECQ/ECW polypropylene in voltage ratings typically less than 100V for proper 5mm-7mm pcb through hole lead-spacing or even COG/NP0 MLCCs as potential alternatives to the potted film Wima types in some instances. For these multi-layer ceramics, I like the Kemet Goldmax types.
 
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I created a table with all the electrolytic capacitors and marked them in the circuit diagram. That's as far as I've gotten so far...





Rich (BB code): 


Board / SectionComponentOriginal ValueSignal PathReplacement?
NADA-2191/92 (Power Driver)
Power DriverC02, C03100 µF / 25VNo (Decoupling)Panasonic FR (35V / 50V)
Power DriverC05, C0647 µF / 25VNo (Buffering)Panasonic FR (50V)
Power DriverC14220 µF / 6.3VNo (Buffering)Panasonic FR (25V / 35V)
Power DriverC15, C16100 µF / 6.3VNo (Decoupling)Panasonic FR (25V / 35V)
Power DriverC27, C2847 µF / 10V (LL)No (Servo/Bias)Nichicon UKL (Low Leakage)
NAMA-2194 (Power Amplifier)
Power AmpC007, C008100 µF / 25VNo (Decoupling)Panasonic FR (50V)
Power AmpC014, C0154.7 µF / 25VNo (Filter)WIMA MKS2 or Nichicon UKL
Power AmpC016, C01747 µF / 16VNo (Buffering)Panasonic FR (35V / 50V)
Power AmpC045, C046330 µF / 16VNo (Decoupling)Panasonic FR (25V / 35V)
Power AmpC047, C04847 µF / 25VNo (Buffering)Panasonic FR (50V)
Power AmpC049, C0501 µF / 50VYes (Feedback)WIMA MKS2 (Film)
NAPS-2197 (Power Supply)
Power SupplyC9014700 µF / 16VNo (Relay PSU)Panasonic FR (25V / 35V)
Power SupplyC902470 µF / 16V (LL)No (Timing)Nichicon UKL (Low Leakage)
NAPC-2196 (Protector)
ProtectorC507, C5152.2 µF / 50VNo (Logic Timing)WIMA MKS2 or Nichicon UKL
ProtectorC5084.7 µF / 25VNo (Logic)WIMA MKS2 or Nichicon UKL
ProtectorC5133.3 µF / 50VNo (DC Sensing)WIMA MKS2 or Nichicon UKL
ProtectorC518, C5191000 µF / 10V (LL)No (DC Servo)Nichicon UKL
ProtectorC520330 µF / 16VNo (Logic PSU)Panasonic FR (25V)
ProtectorC5261 µF / 50V (NP)Yes (Detection)Nichicon UES (Bipolar)
ProtectorC5270.33 µF / 50VYes (Detection)WIMA MKS2 (Film)
ProtectorC5280.22 µF / 50V (NP)Yes (Detection)WIMA MKS2 or Nichicon UES
ProtectorC5314700 µF / 16VNo (Relay PSU)Panasonic FR (25V / 35V)
ProtectorC532100 µF / 16VNo (Logic PSU)Panasonic FR (35V)
NAME-2198 (Meter Circuit) (C7XX Shematic)
Meter CircuitC02, C033.3 µF / 50VNo (Meter Ref.)Nichicon UKL or KA
Meter CircuitC041 µF / 50VYes (Meter Input)WIMA MKS2 (Film)
Meter CircuitC084.7 µF / 25V (LL)No (Integration)Nichicon UKL
Meter CircuitC09, C1010 µF / 16V (LL)No (Peak-Hold)Nichicon UKL
Meter CircuitC11, C1222 µF / 25VNo (Lamp PSU)Panasonic FR (35V)
Meter CircuitC13, C1447 µF / 25VNo (Logic PSU)Panasonic FR (50V)
Meter CircuitC15, C16150 µF / 35VNo (Meter Driver)Panasonic FR (50V)
Meter CircuitC17, C18220 µF / 25VNo (Decoupling)Panasonic FR (35V)
Meter CircuitC19, C204.7 µF / 25VNo (Filtering)Nichicon UKL or KA
Meter CircuitC241 µF / 50VNo (Filtering)WIMA MKS2
 
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That will work. You can also try just getting one voltage rating, eg. 25V to replace all 6.3V, 10V, 16V or 25V originals. I like to get a series of cap I like in the 25V and 50V ratings so I only have to stock two different voltage ratings of each type. Up to you. I'd still recommend replacing with film up to about 4.7uF or so. Low capacitance 'lytics kind of suck in terms of their electrical performance characteristics and longevity compared to film. Might at as well improve to mkp over mks/mkt when possible. Also, keep in mind what you "think" is in an audio path does not fully encapsulate what is actually effecting the audio path. It's not nearly as linear or easy to understand as people think simply by applying theoretical logic or looking at the straight lines of an audio signal path or schematic. The safer assumption is to assume everything "could" potentially effect an audio path somehow and to make those parts decisions accordingly. That way, you never inadvertently compromise audio quality when its effect may actually be audible but you didn't realize it or hadn't considered it. Assume everything matters, that way there's never any regrets or compromises with what it is you're doing and you'll never have to second-guess the performance and results.
 
Thanks for the advice, especially regarding the film caps and voltage consolidation. I admit I might be overcomplicating things a bit here, but the M510 is very dear to me, so I really want to get this right without any regrets.
With that in mind: Would you simply replace the entire installed 'SM' series with one single good modern series across the board (assuming that every capacitor potentially influences the audio path)? I was just hesitating because I know that Low ESR isn't necessarily beneficial in every position in old amps.
The Low Leakage (LL) types I will, of course, replace with modern LL equivalents regardless.
 
fixitfelix said:
Thanks for the advice, especially regarding the film caps and voltage consolidation. I admit I might be overcomplicating things a bit here, but the M510 is very dear to me, so I really want to get this right without any regrets.
With that in mind: Would you simply replace the entire installed 'SM' series with one single good modern series across the board (assuming that every capacitor potentially influences the audio path)? I was just hesitating because I know that Low ESR isn't necessarily beneficial in every position in old amps.
The Low Leakage (LL) types I will, of course, replace with modern LL equivalents regardless.
Click to expand...
I would replace SM general-purpose Chemi-Con with UES. I guarantee it will turn out sounding better than before and there will be no regrets in terms of second-guessing or its sound afterwards. Just make sure the shorter lead of UES goes to negative pcb hole to minimize noise/ EMI. It's up to you. You can still use UKL to replace LL types if you want. There are lots and lots of different variations you can go with in terms of which caps you use and they will all work (one way or another) unless you get polarity wrong with polarized replacements.
 
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