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Onkyo TX-4500 MKII Output Level Issue

T Foolery

New Member
My cousin bought an Onkyo TX-4500 MKII and I restored it for him. I replaced all the electrolytics, filter capacitors, relay, cleaned all the controls and remounted outputs. I was really impressed with the sound of this unit so I decided to pick one up and do the same work for my unit. The unit I acquired was cosmetically near perfect but had some anomalies. The dial string was installed incorrectly so that when you turned the knob left the pointer moved right and the volume potentiometer was a regular one as opposed to my cousin's which was indexed. I thought that it must have been worked on at some point but all indicators when I went to open pointed to it not being ever opened. Was it strung improperly at the factory? Maybe the assembler had too much sake that day? Did Onkyo source two different types of potentiometers for the same model? Who knows? It turned out the loop around the tuning knob was backwards and after much time I was able to reroute the string and get it working as it should.

Because I was replaying the same script that I used for my cousin's unit, I didn't extensively test the unit out before getting into the bulk of the work. I hooked it up to the dim bulb, checked DC and then listened to the FM tuner through the headphones. It sounded okay, both channels came in clearly in stereo and I went ahead and did the recap, etc. After I finished I set it up properly with all sources connected and tested it out. I found that the output level and sound quality varied depending on the source being used. The tuner had a relatively weak output (I could get to 11 o'clock and still felt like it was lacking, I could barely hear it sub 9 o'clock). The phono input was a bit better but still lacked the fullness it should have. It sounds kind of tinny and so does the tuner for that matter. With the line in, however, it's a completely different story. It sounds super powerful and crystal clear (as it should). I can get to nice rock out output level at 9 o'clock.

I've been spending the better part of a month trying to figure out what would cause an issue like this and I've doe more work and testing to figure it out but I don't want to make this too long. Has anyone had an issue like this before? It seems to be a tough one because technically it is working; both channels are clear and distortion free. But I know something is off because I did a direct comparison with my cousin's unit and my findings checked out. His sounds awesome through the tuner, phono as well as the line in with no major discrepancies in output level or sound quality Appreciate any help with this.
 
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Does the PHONO and TUNER pass through something that the AUX doesn't? Maybe an OPAMP? Are the voltages correct to the tune and phono sections?
 
The phono and tuner both run through a board they called equalizer which houses the phono stage and also handles FM muting and dolby de-emphasis. The phono signal passes through an OPAMP (both left and right channels) which are supposed to be 23 volts and I measured both to be 21.85 volts at idle. I highly suspected this board and especially the HA-1457 chips but noted that the voltages seemed to line up so I figured they were okay. But that didn't stop me from transplanting and seeing what would happen with my cousin's units chips. It didn't change anything so I assumed mine were good. This board contains these phono OPAMP chips, a selector switch, the muting and de-emphasis button switches for the tuner, resistors and capacitors. The resistors were all checked and are within spec. The electrolytic capacitors are new, the switches are cleaned, I think I may have checked the factory film capacitors even. The Onkyo schematic in the service manual has various voltages listed and all of them checked out. I even checked the resistors on the RCA input board which touches all sources and they checked out too. I'm so desperate I may remove and check the new replaced electrolytics all of which but two are film.
 
All the signals pass through the tape loops (1-2-3) and the switches are way up inside on the bottom of one of the boards and nearly impossible to clean without removing the board. When my 4500 MKII starts acting up I push the tape loop buttons in/out 15-20 times each and it magically starts playing properly again. The balance pot can be a PIA sometimes too but putting a few drops of DeOxit Fader Lube in it then rotating it a boatload of times clears it up nicely.
 
Thanks krautmaster. Previously I had cleaned those tape loop switches the best I could without removing the board but I figured I might as well pull the board out and do a thorough cleaning to at least eliminate this as a possibility. I did the cleaning and it did not have an effect but it was worth the small bit of effort to know those switches are properly cleaned now. You have to maneuver the board out of its position to get it out and then do the reverse get it back in. One interesting thing about this unit that I got was that it came with these dummy plugs inserted into some of the RCA jacks. I assumed these were to keep dust out or something like that so I plugged them into the jacks that I was not using - record out for two of the three tape inputs. So when I went to maneuver the board back into place I removed them to make it easier to get it back in. Finally the light went on where I thought "is there any possibility that these dumb things are causing the problem?" So I did a a check and guess what? Those dumb things were the problem and now all sources have the correct power and sound quality that they should. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I feel like an idiot - I can't believe I didn't see or consider this before. But this forum sparked the possibility to finally find the issue. Thanks guys for the help. I have to ask of course: What the heck are these plugs anyway??
 
Well there were four of them and two phono inputs so that lines up. It probably shipped from the factory with them inserted into the phono jacks. When I saw them in the photos of the listing it just added to the "this thing is in such lightly used condition that it even has the factory dust cover plugs" good feelings.
 
Thanks krautmaster. Previously I had cleaned those tape loop switches the best I could without removing the board but I figured I might as well pull the board out and do a thorough cleaning to at least eliminate this as a possibility. I did the cleaning and it did not have an effect but it was worth the small bit of effort to know those switches are properly cleaned now. You have to maneuver the board out of its position to get it out and then do the reverse get it back in. One interesting thing about this unit that I got was that it came with these dummy plugs inserted into some of the RCA jacks. I assumed these were to keep dust out or something like that so I plugged them into the jacks that I was not using - record out for two of the three tape inputs. So when I went to maneuver the board back into place I removed them to make it easier to get it back in. Finally the light went on where I thought "is there any possibility that these dumb things are causing the problem?" So I did a a check and guess what? Those dumb things were the problem and now all sources have the correct power and sound quality that they should. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I feel like an idiot - I can't believe I didn't see or consider this before. But this forum sparked the possibility to finally find the issue. Thanks guys for the help. I have to ask of course: What the heck are these plugs anyway??
There are for the unused phono input if you only have one table hooked up... apparently the unused jacks can pick up RF interference and filter it into the phono board.
 
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