Opinions on McIntosh speakers wanted!!!!

[jmarley7]

I got a guy who would like to sell me a pair of McIntosh ML-4C speakers. I haven't had a chance to check them out in person and I really haven't had any luck finding reviews or opinions on these speakers (one bad youtube video).
The seller says they are in good condition (of course). I have only seen a picture of one of the cabinets. The EQ is not included in the sale, and from what I know you really need the EQ to get full potential.

I would like to get some opinions (good or bad) before I proceed any further with the possible purchase of these speakers.

 

[Mike Gibson]

If you don't get any feedback here from folks who have owned them you might try sending Roger Russell and e-mail and ask him about them. I don't know if this e-mail addy is still good or not.

rogerr4@earthlink.net

Good luck

 

[damacman]

A great friend of mine had a pair. Let me tell you what - those things ROCK! He powered them with an MC2205 I believe. I'm not sure I've ever heard a speaker that could produce the lowest two octaves with such authority.

ML4Cs are getting harder to come by. If they had one downfall, it would be their size and weight.

BITD, it is rumored that at least one McIntosh dealer in OKC stacked ML4Cs and powered them with up to (4) MC2300s! Could you just imagine?

Good luck!

 

[62caddy]

Interesting...

I believe I read the old man (Frank M) had a setup of 2 pair of ML 4Cs himself.

Don't recall what the amp was...

 

[fgb4]

Never heard the ML-4C's but i love my RX5s.

 

[twiiii]

ML-4C was a great speaker. It could move mountains and certainly walls and floors. The only problem with the speaker was the tweeter and super tweeter couldn't handle the full power required for the woofers. For a minimum you need 200 watts for the woofers 100 watts for the mid, 100 watts for the tweeters and less than 30 for the super tweeter. The 2300 was the ideal amp for the speaker, 2205's ran out of power real fast. The problem was with out power guard the 2300 could take out the tweeters in nothing flat if pushed into clipping.

Another issue is over all balance. I would want a MQ101 as a minimum to get the right balance because of room placement and the over all quality of the room, brite, soft, dull, hard. I would prefer the MQ 107, if I had the calibration equipment or a MEN220 if I didn't. MQ102 and 104 are inadequate in my experience. Dealers, Audio Classics for instance, use to stack the ML-4s and 2's to get the tweeters up to ear height to improve the balance and the over all presentation. I would put a very thick carpet pad with thick carpet infront of the speakers to absorb sound directed at the floor which after being reflected will cause blurring of the sound from the tweeters.

Thats why the XRT 20/22 became so popular. Tweeters could handle the full power and the line array prevented or at least largely prevented reflections off the the floor.

 

[twiiii]

If you have the ability to raise the midrange to ear height, 43" everything will improve. The overly heavy bass will disappear and you can control the balance with the MQ102 or 107. The negative reflections off the floor will be reduced. The reason I kept my Concert Grands was the line array of tweeters, and elevated mids the ML-4's didn't have. The highs of the ML-4's were better, that why I added Celestion super tweeters, and I preferred the bass above 60hz of the Grand over the ML-4. Nothing matches the bottom two octaves of a ML-4. Plus my 275's, bi-amping were more than adequate, and 275 in mono wasn't for a ML-4. It only takes two weight lifters or 4 strong guys to lift a ML-4. Even a XR290 can't match a ML-4 for moving walls. Its a great disco speaker. Remember a ML-4 is about 86 db 4 ft 1 watt, so you need a minimum of 100 watts to reach concert level. And there is no way 4 ML-4's with two 2300's can produce the peak level of a live concert like you can with a pair of Klipschorns, JBL, Altec, EV or other horn loaded speakers with less than 50watts.

 

[jlovda]

For a minimum you need 200 watts for the woofers 100 watts for the mid, 100 watts for the tweeters and less than 30 for the super tweeter.

I do not own Mcintosh speakers but I would like some info. You say 200 watts are needed for the woofer. What does that mean? At 190 watt you hear nothing or is there some SPL level that must be achieved based on efficiency?

 

[twiiii]

Roger Russell says you need 106 db continuous to replicate concern level of an Orchestra at or around row 6. And there are many other publications and tests performed to prove that. Well that means 100 watts at 4 ft and about 200 watts at 8 ft. at home. As the ML-4c is a point source speaker you don't want to get to far away from the speakers as the reflected sound from the walls, floors and ceiling of the room will swamp the direct sound from the speaker and take away the definition and imaging presented by the speaker. Therefore 8 ft. When CD's came along the crest factor of recordings went from 4 times, 6 db to 10 times, 10 db. So if the continuous loud parts require 100 watts on older LP's with an average of 6 db crest factor you need 400 watts of power which fits the 2300 perfectly, but with 10 db for a CD then you'll need a 1000 watts to produce a live concert level. Well fortunately only a very small fraction of us listen that loudly for a sustained period. most of listen at 85 db with a 10 db peaking factor. Thats 20 watts at 8 ft. If your a professional musician, a sound engineer, or an avid listener you might add 6 db to that figure, 80 watts under most circumstances. Now lets say with your speakers elevated to place the mid at 43" against a wall you have the LF filter switch on the 3 or 4 position you ll need another 6db of power at 40 HZ. possibly. So now you need 320 watts. Well the 2200 has run out of power and you are not even with in 10 db of real live sound. But don't worry as long as you can develop about 110 db your set. Lets see thats 400 watts peak. a 2300. So you see why the 2300 was such a popular amp for the ML-4. You could always use a 7300 or a MC300 or 302 today, they would be a perfect match and have power guard..

 

[jlovda]

Thank you for the incredible detail of your response. I guess it boils down to how loud you want to listen to your music. As I read somewhere, only a very small percentage of the population have attended a live concert at a world class hall, such as Severance Hall in Cleveland. The "correct" volume is not necessarily the most comfortable volume.