• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Ortofon Bronze or Dynavector 10x5 confusion

lola

New Member
Hey everyone I need some advice……

I want to upgrade from the Elys 2 on my Rega Rp3 but am having a lot of questions.

I was set on the bronze, then was told to look into the Dyna. Now I'm really on the fence and wish I had the money for both!!

I have researched that the bronze is very detailed and analytical, supposedly exposing older/used vinyl of its deficiencies, while the 10x5 seems more 'warm' and does better with used or older vinyl.

Is this the case for current owners of these carts? Do bronze owners feel that original 60/70s pressings not sound good? Also, what does 'warm' mean?

I have a sansui AU-717 amp and was told that it is a 'warm' amp. I figured if this was true, the bronze would be a good match, but now am concerned my older vinyl will not do well with it.

I listen to mostly 60/70s rock and blues and just starting to get into jazz.

Thank you all!
 
Register to hide this ad
It may be helpful to list the other equipment that you have (amp, phono preamp, speakers, etc.). The reason I say that is because it could make a difference in the recommendations you get. For example, you might consider upgrading your phono preamp first. Also, do you have a record cleaner?

Is there something that you don't like about the Elys2? Or just ready for an upgrade? I've had both the Ortofon 2M Bronze and the Dynavector 10x5 - I like them both, but would personally choose the 10x5. I don't, however, know if it will fit on the RP3 without adjusting the VTA - I'm not saying that it won't, I just haven't had any personal experience with that combo...I'm sure others here have!

In terms of sound being called "warm" - well that definition can be different from person to person. Often times it is used to describe the opposite of "bright" which can also be different from person to person. Warm would typically be easier on the ears over long listening sessions reducing ear fatigue - most noticeably in the higher frequencies. Warm would be a little softer than bright. But like I said, this one is very hard to nail down from person to person!
 
Is the Elys2 a warm sounding cartridge? I'm not very fond of it since I listened to my brothers MMF 5.1 with the Ortofon Magic on it. I could not believe what it pulled out of the grooves.


I had a 2m red on a old sansui table and it sounded awesome. I guess since the red impressed me so much, I'm intrigued how much better the bronze will sound on a better table.
I have never owned a MM cartridge before, so I'm not familiar with the sound difference.I've heard the bronze has a more modern 'cd like' sound to it, compared to a warm sound from a dyna.
I'm just afraid if I get the 10x5, I will be disappointed that I will not be hearing all I could be….Hmmm
 
Last edited:
Is the Elys2 a warm sounding cartridge? I'm not very found of it since I listened to my brothers MMF 5.1 with the Ortofon Magic on it. I could not believe what it pulled out of the grooves.

I have never owned a MM cartridge before, so I'm not familiar with the sound difference.I've heard the bronze has a more modern 'cd like' sound to it, compared to a warm sound from a dyna.
I'm just afraid if I get the 10x5, I will be disappointed that I will not be hearing all I could be….Hmmm

I had an Elys 2 on a Rega P5 and thought it emphasized the bass at the expense of detail. From there I went to a Dynavector Ruby and am really happy with it.

This site has some audio files for an Ortofon Black and the Dynavector 10x5:

http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/cartridges/mm-cartridges/

I know its not exactly the two carts you asked about, but may give you an idea of how the Ortofon and Dynavector compare.
 
What phono preamp do you have? Or are you using a built in phono pre on your receiver/integrated? What speakers do you have? Do you like how your system sounds with CD's or other sources? I'm just trying to get a better idea of what else might be playing a factor in you liking your brother's setup better than yours.

Your Elys 2 is an MM (moving magnet) cartridge - and the Ortofon 2M Bronze is as well (the 2M Black is often considered one of the very best MM cartridges you can buy). The Dynavector 10x5 on the other hand is an MC cartridge - a HOMC (high-output moving coil) to be more exact. What that means is that you can use it with a standard MM phono input. What I really like about the 10x5 cartridge is that it has good bass, but also fantastic detail without being fatiguing. I've had a couple cartridges that were 2 - 3X the price of the 10x5, but I'm still very happy with it!

I think it is important to say that a good phono preamp can make almost as big (maybe even bigger) of a difference as a new cartridge. I would be a little worried that you may not get the most out of either the Ortofon or Dynavector that you're looking at without a decent phono preamp. If you really want to go the Ortofon route, I would consider maybe getting the 2M Blue and put the rest of your money towards a nice phono preamp.
 
My sansui AU 717 integrated amp has a phono preamp. My speakers are Cambridge s70s.
My brothers system has the same speakers (we got a deal on them together) and his amp is a sansui integrated AU3900 with phono preamp as well.

As for the blue, I'd rather spend a couple hundred more…..from what i've read, you get quite a bit more for your money….
 
I have a Rega P3 24 that initially came with the Elys 2 cartridge. I never liked the Elys, just seemed flat and not very dynamic. After doing some research online I replaced the Elys 2 with a Dynavector 10x5. To me this was a big upgrade. The Dyna is great on the Rega, very dynamic with some nice punch. I never saw an issue using the 10x5 with used vinyl but I do clean all records with a RCM.
Another cartridge I'm using with my Rega is the Denon DL 110. This to me is a really nice sounding cartridge as well. I bought it to use while I was thinking about having my 10x5 retipped. The Denon is still on the table. These used to be a real bargain before the big price increase, still a really nice sounding cartridge in my opinion. If I don't end up retipping the 10x5 I'm looking at one of the Clear Audio wood cartridges like the Aurum.
 
Having had both cartridges, I would opt for the 10x5. It is still one of my favorite cartridges and one resides on my AR ES-1. The Ortofon is a good cart as well and is a very nice piece, however I think IMHO the 10x5 is a true winner for the money.
 
I don't have any personal experience with the phono section of the Sansui AU717, but it would suspect that it is pretty decent. I still think you might benefit from going with an external phono stage, but I know you didn't ask about that specifically in this thread so I don't want to derail it. On the used market, I don't think you can beat the PS Audio GCPH...they usually pop up around the $500 mark and are worth every penny in my opinion! There are some new options in/around/under the $500 mark as well. If you'd like any other suggestions, let me know.

As for the carts - that is 2 people now that have had both the 2M Bronze and 10x5 and suggested the 10x5. But if your heart is really set on the 2M Bronze, go for it. It's your deck, you've gotta do what makes you happy in the end :) I think you'll be happy with whatever direction you go!

Best of luck to ya!
 
Thank you all for the replies.

This will be my final question - livestrong and dokblues, and anyone else- do vintage 60s/70s vinyl pressings sound better with the 10x5 or the Bronze?

I have many original album pressings from the 60s and don't want them to sound crappier than they do with the Elys2. They are not in garbage shape, but many are not MINT either.

Like I said, I was set on the Bronze until I heard folks saying it doesn't match well with older pressings, bringing out every flaw, tic, hiss etc. If this is the case, I'm going 10x5, even if it doesn't track as well as the Ortofon.
 
One thing to keep in mind - The Elys2 should be the most forgiving of clicks, out of these three cartridges. It has a full-bodied sound, by comparison, which probably comes from an emphasis on lower frequencies than the clicks. The Dynavector might be a bit less forgiving, but I'd say worth the upgrade.

The earlier question of what is 'warm' is relevant to this issue of worn records because warmth is ordinarily an emphasis on the midrange, or perhaps more specifically on the lower midrange. If frequencies lower than those of the record wear are emphasized, the clicks are essentially de-emphasized. I've enjoyed the Dynavector 10x4 that is currently on my wife's turntable. It spent a while on my Rega P5, replacing an Elys. Both were probably kinder to my ears with worn records than any Ortofon I've owned.
 
One thing worth investing in would be some kind of record cleaner - you'll get better results regardless of what cartridge you're using.

I can't say which cartridge will sound "better" for your 60/70's records, but based on what I've heard you describe, I think the 10x5 will probably be a little better fit for you and the direction you're trying to head. That being said, audio is incredibly personal and everyone's ears/preferences are different.

You are right, though - as you move "up" the ladder with equipment you typically get more transparency - that means it won't hide flaws in "bad" recordings, but you'll also get a heck of a lot more out of good recordings :)

I'm really curious what you end up doing, so please do come back to give an update. There are other things you can do that don't cost much to help improve your sound. You play around with your speaker placement (bring them further away from your back wall, spread them in/out, toe them in/out, etc.) and room treatments (rugs, room dividers, curtains, wall hangings, etc.). You should post up a picture here or start a thread over in "Members Systems"

Enjoy the journey, enjoy the music :D
 
I was thinking on the way to church today that it might be worth bringing your turntable over to your brother's setup - listen to a record that you know really well on his table. Then unhook his table and hook yours up and listen to the same record. Go back and forth a couple times. If you don't hear as much of a difference as you do when you're at home, the phono preamp may be playing a factor in what you're lacking in your setup. Or room acoustics/setup could also be playing a part. Do either you or your brother happen to have a digital tracking force gauge? If so, check your tracking force - that can make a big difference.

Anyway - looking forward to hearing more from you!
 
Yeah, I've thought of hooking up to my brothers system, maybe I will do that.

He listens to vintage vinyl as well and it sounds really good. That is why I wanted to go with a Bronze as well, I figured it would be a little better than the Magic3, that he has on his TT.

Maybe I will just stick with the Bronze. If a get a Dyanvector, I will always be more curious about the bronze than I would about the 10x5.

Another thing, should I use the protractor that came with my RP3 to do the cartridge setup, or a different one?
 
One of our tables has a 10x5 mounted and most of our vinyl is old. No unwanted noises. Quite impressed. Our pre is a Musical Surroundings Phonomena
 
I think it would be a great idea for you to bring it over to your brothers before you spend $400+ on a new cartridge. Play a couple albums on both tables - if you like his better consistently, I'd personally pick up the Ortofon 2M Blue - I think that would be a good match and produce a similar sound. From what I've been reading the Magic 3 ($350) is a great cartridge (I wish I had more personal experience with it) that is essentially a rebranded Ortofon 520 MKII MM cartridge ($200).

I've been in our shoes before and agonized over what cartridge to get many times :) It is always tough to choose! The only reason I jumped in was to make sure that you consider other potential factors in your system that could play a part in what you're hearing (or not hearing :)) and because I've had experience with both cartridges that you're considering.

If I were in your shoes, knowing what I know about your system and listening habits, I would do the following:
1. Check the tracking force that you're using (you can buy a digital gauge here for $20) and play around with that a little (I think 1.75g is recommended on the Elys 2). If you're tracking too heavy, you may be overpowered by bass and missing some of the details - on the other hand if you're tracking too light, your lows/mids may be completely lacking. I had a guy with 30+ years of experience come over to my place once to help me setup a new cartridge. We set it at the recommended 1.6g and I was pretty happy - sounded better than what I had before. Then we took it up to 2.0g and I was SHOCKED! You should have seen the grin on my face - it was like we had a totally different cartridge on - everything sounded better! Then we proceeded to back it down by 0.1g (1.9, 1.8, 1.7). As soon as we perceived a loss in the sound (it was most noticeable in the bass) we stopped. We ended up leaving it at ~1.9g. That was fun!

2. Bring the table to your brothers and listen to his and yours consecutively with different types of music.

A. If they don't sound as significantly different as you thought they were going to:
1. Consider getting a phono preamp. Once you have it integrated into your system, have a listen for awhile. I think you might be surprised - maybe even WOW'd - if that happens, you'll probably get the itch to get a new cartridge - then pick up the Dynavector 10x5! The fun part about doing the upgrades separately is that you get an idea of how they impact your system separately.

2. Play around with your room - speaker placement, rugs, curtains, room dividers, etc.​

B. If you still like your brothers better, pick up the Ortofon 2M Blue and hold on to the rest of your money for future upgrades (perhaps a phono preamp and or record cleaner) or if you want to "go big" on the cartridge right away, grab the Dynavector 10x5.​

I have had both the Ortofon 2M Blue and 2M Bronze and I like them both, the reason I'm suggesting getting the 2M Blue instead is because spending more don't always give you "better" sound - I'm considering what you've heard and liked and also what your listening habits are and I think the 2M Blue would be a better fit.

Take that with a grain of salt - it is only one man's opinion. I've spent more on audio over the past few years than I care to admit, but I have fun with it and I love to learn/hear new things. If I've learned anything it is that you don't have to spend more to get more - you can achieve great sound on a modest budget, but it takes a little bit of patience to figure out what works best together (system synergy) to produce a sound that brings a smile to your face every time! That is different for everyone.

Anyway - I'm rambling again. Bottom line - go with your gut and what makes you happy, man. It is a journey and hopefully you can have a little fun with it!
 
Thanks, Livestrong.

I know what you mean about synergy the guy who got me into vinyl told me how important it is.

I listened to some comparisons between the blue.bronze,and black last night on youtube.
I know this isn' the best way to tell the difference, through a digital source, but I could definitely hear the difference between the three. The bronze did sound "airy" to me while the Black was the best and the Blue pretty good. I liked the sound of the Blue better.

I might also pick up a Denon Dl-110 for $150 since they are cheap on amazon right now…just to compare ;-)
 
Sounds like you're on your way to having some fun :)

Be sure to check back and let us know how your journey is going - good luck and have fun!!
 
Back
Top Bottom