Ortofon OM cartridge on Pioneer PL12D

[spaceford]

Hello,

I have a Pioneer PL12D with a Shure M7 5ED Mk II cartridge on it and I thought I'd try it with an Ortofon OM10 on it.

It does sound more detailed and the separation is more spacious. However, it's much quieter. I have to turn the volume up on the amp to get the same level as the Shure.

I don't know much about cartridges. Can anyone tell me if this sounds like a normal situation?

Maybe the OM is not a good match. I know the Shure is supposed to be the "classic" cartridge for the PL12D, but are there any more sophisticated cartridges that are suitable?

many thanks,

 

[muchachos]

Yeah, that sounds about right. The Ortofon's output voltage is 4mV, whereas the Shure is 6.2, so the OM should require more gain to get to the same volume.

 

[tubewade]

Hello,

I have a Pioneer PL12D with a Shure M7 5ED Mk II cartridge on it and I thought I'd try it with an Ortofon OM10 on it.

It does sound more detailed and the separation is more spacious. However, it's much quieter. I have to turn the volume up on the amp to get the same level as the Shure.

I don't know much about cartridges. Can anyone tell me if this sounds like a normal situation?

Maybe the OM is not a good match. I know the Shure is supposed to be the "classic" cartridge for the PL12D, but are there any more sophisticated cartridges that are suitable?

many thanks,

The Shure has a rated output of about 6mV while the Ortofon is rated at 4mV. That is a difference large enough to notice, but it doesn't hurt anything at all. You just have to increase the volume to accommodate. It's normal.

Both of these styli are theoretically a bit too compliant for the Pioneers tonearm, but if you have no footfall problems from unstable floors they can work better than expected. Try the OM10 for a while and see what you think. There is a world of different cartridges available and it helps a lot if you have some idea of what you like or don't like about your present cartridge so you can be sure the next one will be an improvement. While you are thinking about this, study the Audio Technica VM95 series. There is a broad range in this series from basic to outstanding, and there is a good probability that one of those will suit you when you are ready.

 

[spaceford]

Ok, interesting stuff and good to know the Ortofon is performing as it should do. I don't have any footfall problems - my Pioneer seems to play solidly, so I'll give the OM10 a whirl for a while.

Thank you both for the advice.

 

[Crab33]

It doesn't surprise me that the OM10 sounds more detailed than the M75ED. The latter is not particularly detailed anyway and the Ortofon should be a bit brighter.

The PL12D tends to be OK with high-compliance cartridges. Indeed, the M75ED is itself high-compliance and was the usually recommended cartridge for the PL12D back in the day.

I have tried the OM20 on the PL12D to good effect. I also like the 2M Red on it, although we are getting brighter again. If you want to experiment with cartridges, many budget-to-mid price cartridges will be good with the PL12D and, as pointed out above, the AT-VM95 range is worth investigating - the AT-VM95E is a good starting point as you can upgrade the stylus from there.

 

[cgutz]

I have both as well. The Ortofons (I have several vintage, all the way up the line) are what I would call clinically "accurate." They sound very nice for the price.

My M75ED sounds smooth, but less detailed. On a system that has pronounced highs, it sounds better than my OM10. IMHO.

So, if you have an already warm to neutral sounding system, the Ortofon is a great choice. I have heard some bright amplifier/speaker combinations. The Shure seems to tame those systems.

 

[salamander]

Hi ! One of my players was the PL-12d mk2 . It worked well with AT cartridges ( 95 , 440 , 30e), Ortofon cartridges ( VMS-20 and F-15), Sony XL-15 , Technics 207, and Empire ( EXL-10 and Broadcast One ) . He's a pretty versatile player .

 

[spaceford]

Hi again, thanks for the further advice.

I'll definitely look into the VM95E. I'm also tempted to track down a M95ED for vintage value, but they seem to be hard to find and expensive.

But while I'm here, I have to admit, I've never really understood what compliance means.

And then there's capacitance! I'm using a NAD 3155 from the mid-80s - the final upgrade in the 3020 range, I think.

On the back is a switch for 3 different types of capacitance - 100pf, 200pf and 300pf. Does this matter?

 

[Crab33]

The M95ED is my preferred cartridge on the PL12D. You should be able to get a cartridge body at a reasonable price but then you have to be careful to get an aftermarket stylus of sufficient quality, otherwise the performance just won't be anywhere near the original. Usually, the Japanese brands such as Jico and Tonar are the best, and they also offer upgraded hyper-elliptical styli.

Compliance is a measure of how soft or hard the stylus suspension is - high-compliance means soft, needing a low-mass arm, and low-compliance means hard, needing a high-mass arm, but many cartridges today have medium-compliance styli and are well-suited to the medium-mass arm of the PL12D.

The load capacitance for the cartridge can make a notable difference to the sound. Most cartridges have a recommended range of load capacitance in which the manufacturer considers the best performance to be achieved (although in my experience, they are not always right). The load capacitance on the cartridge comes from adding the capacitance of your phono-stage to the capacitance of the wiring between the cartridge and pre-amp (so arm wiring and phono cables). You are lucky to have selectable capacitance in the phono-stage of the NAD amplifier. I think you can assume the cable capacitance is somewhere around 150pF for the PL12D, so whatever you select on the NAD is added to that. The best thing is to experiment with the settings and keep the one that suits you (for a particular cartridge).

 

[spaceford]

Thanks Crab33

Wow, I've been trying out the OM10 and I didn't realise it would be so difficult to decide my preference! Immediately, it's brighter, as you say, than the M7ED. But sometimes the detail and separation is possibly too much. It sounds perfect for electronic music and orchestra but playing The Stooges and other rock bands, it was sharp, but seemed to dissect the sound too much and subdued the up-front power, especially with vocals.

I also thought that generally, the OM10 was more acceptable through the speakers than through my headphones (AKG K92), where the M7ED"s sound was more cohesive. I listen to speakers usually though.

You say you've tried the OM20 and the M95ED on the PL12D. How do they compare? I'm assuming the M95ED is a step up from the M7ED, but is it in the OM20 league?
And are hyper-elliptical syli worth the extra?

many thanks,

 

[Crab33]

Your comparison of the OM10 vs the M75ED is pretty good, but seems more like the Super-OM10 than the basic OM10 (the Super-OMs are brighter). I agree that the Ortofon OMs lend themselves well to fast-moving Electronic music, as they are tight and punchy, while the M75ED is too woolly and lethargic for this kind of music - it does well with Rock though.

The M95ED is quite different from the M75ED. It is more neutrally balanced as well as being more dynamic and detailed across the frequency spectrum - so actually, a step towards the Ortofons while retaining a slight warmth of the Shure sound. There is perhaps less power in the bass of the M95ED than the M75ED but its dynamics are more evenly spread across the bands. For me, the M95ED has quite an addictive sound.

I'd say the OM20 is a progression from the OM10 perhaps with deeper bass, crisper treble and better dynamics, while at the same time being more refined. However, I find that the Super-OM20 takes all of this too far and is quite tiring.

The hyper-elliptical styli offer a bit more detail and refinement over the basic ellipticals. As aftermarket styli go, they will probably take you closer to the sound of the original stylus (as the genuine styli tend to be superior to the aftermarkets).

By the way, you should play with your amp's capacitance settings with the OM10, as this may cure the overwhelming sound that you are experiencing. This is also worth doing with the M75ED.