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oscilloscope recommendations?

R

rajuncajun

Member
I'm finally getting more serious about doing more serious restoration and repair projects and would like to upgrade to a dual trace oscilloscope from my very old Leader unit.

Any recommendations? Should I look at a new digital scope or a used analog scope? I can only spend $300-400 so I'm looking at used scopes on e-blank which is hard b/c there are so darn many, and I found a couple new ones (BK 2120B, Rigol DS1052E) in the right price range. Anyone have either of these scopes?

I primarily will be using it for troubleshooting amp and radio signal paths.

Thanks!
 
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In that price range, I would get an analog Tektronix. Just about any model from the last 20-30 years should be miles better than your old Leader. Older Teks are also good, but will probably need some work.

Low end (or old) digital scopes are to be avoided unless you really need a digital scope. It takes at least a few thousand $ to get a digital scope that will do everything a good analog scope can do. Cheap/old digital scopes are hopeless for things like viewing a video wave form, CD player RF eye pattern, or RF envelope.
 
The Rigol might be good. I heard somewhere that Agilent's low-end scopes were made by the same company, and we've had very good service from one of those. I believe ours is the 2-Ch 100MHz version.
 
bit depth?

How about the bit depth of a digital scope - I read somewhere that you should have a 12 or 16 bit scope for doing audio b/c 8 bit just doesn't have enough dynamic range. Any truth in this? If so, that definitely puts a digital scope out of my price range. It seems reasonable that one would get more bang for the buck with a used analog scope than a brand new one anyways.

Anyone know a reliable seller of used test equipment besides our favorite online auction site, not that it's a reliable source. More like buyer beware...
 
rajuncajun said:
How about the bit depth of a digital scope - I read somewhere that you should have a 12 or 16 bit scope for doing audio b/c 8 bit just doesn't have enough dynamic range. Any truth in this? If so, that definitely puts a digital scope out of my price range. It seems reasonable that one would get more bang for the buck with a used analog scope than a brand new one anyways.

Anyone know a reliable seller of used test equipment besides our favorite online auction site, not that it's a reliable source. More like buyer beware...
Click to expand...

It's not the dynamic range of the capture as much as the resolution of the display that's the problem. Digital oscilloscopes typically only have a screen resolution of 640x480, but an analog scope has an almost infinite screen resolution, so you can see a lot more information about complex signals. If you try to look at something like a composite video signal on an analog scope, you can see lots of useful information, even though the beam can't resolve every detail. On a digital scope, you just end up with a mess of aliasing because they only capture what can be displayed on the low resolution screen. The better digital scopes can simulate the effects of a CRT display to minimize this problem (Tek calls it "digital phosphor"), but be ready to max out your credit card.

Digital scopes are good for capturing slow, or single events, and for measuring simple waveforms. They're also nice for taking measurements since they can give you a variety of on screen measurements. For a general hobbyist, analog is still the way to go unless you really need something that can only be done with a digital.
 
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"Any recommendations? Should I look at a new digital scope or a used analog scope? I can only spend $300-400 so I'm looking at used scopes on e-blank which is hard b/c there are so darn many, and I found a couple new ones (BK 2120B, Rigol DS1052E) in the right price range. Anyone have either of these scopes?"


Greetings, I am the proud owner of a Rigol, pronounced regal, DS1052E and I love it! I upgraded it via firmware to operate at a true 100 Mhz. See EEVBLOG.com for a complete rundown of the easy mod. I am presently using the Rigol to test and troubleshoot my pre amp that is undergoing mods and upgrades.

The digital scope is so much easier to use than my old 100 Mhz HP analog scope and I feel it gives me more meaningful data while testing for channel separation and frequency response etc. Tonite I used the averaging feature to look for a sine wave that was buried in the mud so to speak, actually noise. I am trying to get 80 to 90 DB's of channel separation at 1000hz, 10,000 hz. and 20,000 hz. Not easy but I got there with the help of the Rigol.


"I primarily will be using it for troubleshooting amp and radio signal paths."

The DS1052E hacked to 100 Mhz. will suit you just fine. I got mine at Tequipment in Long Branch NJ. 400 clams with FREE shipping! Took 3 days to Long Island, New York. I can't recommend them enough, go for it.

OBTW, I have my old HP scope for sale with the proceeds to go to AK as a full donation. Check the ad section.

Edit, just checked the business and vendor section and my ad is gone. Musta had a time limit. But my donation to AK still stands, whatever I get for it goes to AK.
 
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At that price range.... find a Hitachi V-1065 or 1065A scope. VERY under rated scope.
The A has a pretty good frequency counter in it as well. Even better, the 1565. See picture.

They are so good, and easy to use, I have no less than 3 of them. Yes, they are better than a tek scope. SUPER user friendly, auto sweep, awesome scope.

Don't pass it around too much, the prices will no doubt go up. I do have a digital scope, but in all honestly they are NOT great for audio and video. They do not resolve
these waveforms as well as a good analog scope. Digitals are VERY good for logic circuits, digital electronics and computers.

A V-1565 sold recently for $80. I paid around $150 for each of mine. An unbelievable value in a scope. Seriously. I used many scopes, but this is a keeper. :thmbsp:

BTW, they DO make a version with digital storage as well. I have that one too, but I don't recall the model right now. I think I got it under 200 clams. For a true digital I use an HP, though. It has it's special uses and is fantastic for that. But just try looking at a CD laser eye pattern with one. Forget it. Good old 100mhz analog for that use.

Marc
 

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I have an HP 54602B scope, its worked out great for me and has features I have never even used!! Its a 4 channel 150 MHz scope.
 
I have found the Tektronix 465 to be a very handy little scope. :thmbsp: You just have to be very picky when buying one on eBay, if they dont show a picture of two good traces pass it by.

Paul
 
+1 for a Hitachi scope. Under priced and easy to use. Working on audio does not really require a TOTL scope. A dual trace 100Mhz is perfect for almost everything.

You can spend the money you save on a low distortion audio oscillator, frequency counter, and a distortion analyzer for your work bench :tresbon:
 
bharper said:
.... if you do not get a Tek, you did not get a scope...
Click to expand...

While there's no doubt that Tek makes some of the best scopes in the world, your statement is way too black and white. There are other manufacturers that make superb quality equipment.
 
Although it looks like I can get more bandwidth per dollar with a used analog scope, from reading the positive comment above about the Rigol I'm leaning in that direction, especially if it is flashable to 100mhz bandwidth. Also, I'm still hesitant to get something used on ebay, none of the sellers really guarantee condition or calibration of their items and I would prefer that it be working and reliable. Plus I don't see any hitachi's on there right now.

I use 2 scopes at work and both are digital teks, a TDS 3012 and a TDS 2014B and I like how easy the digital scopes are to use. We look at fluorescence peaks from cell samples run single file through a laser beam at up to 70K events per second and each peak must be well-resolved, these scopes do a great job and are easy to work with. The built-in measurement capabilities are handy, we often need to quickly and accurately determine time delay between different peaks for example.
 
I'm sure the Rigol is a good value, but be sure you'll be happy with the 320x234 resolution of the display (less than 1/4 that of the TDS3012). Also, don't expect to be able to use it for working with CD RF eye patterns or video signals (you'll need a digital phosphor like the TDS3012 for that). For making basic measurements while running test signals through amplifiers.
 
I don't think one of the best features of digital scopes was mentioned; the ability to capture waveform measurements and share them on-line.
 
" Also, I'm still hesitant to get something used on ebay, none of the sellers really guarantee condition or calibration of their items and I would prefer that it be working and reliable. Plus I don't see any hitachi's on there right now."


Yep, buying a scope on the "Bay is a crap shoot. The auction for my HP 1740A said "It turns on but I have no idea how to test it further". So I bet 150 bucks plus shipping that the thing worked. Luckily it works fine and you have to know how to use a scope just to tell IF it indeed does work OK.


"I use 2 scopes at work and both are digital teks, a TDS 3012 and a TDS 2014B and I like how easy the digital scopes are to use. We look at fluorescence peaks from cell samples run single file through a laser beam at up to 70K events per second and each peak must be well-resolved, these scopes do a great job and are easy to work with. The built-in measurement capabilities are handy, we often need to quickly and accurately determine time delay between different peaks for example."

Outstanding! Get the Rigol, bring it into work, and put it up against the Rolls Royce of scopes and I bet you will be impressed for what you got versus how much you paid for it. In the hobby realm a scope such as the Rigol is WAY over the top but for 400 bucks you can't beat it.

And Yes, as with any piece of test equipment you have to know its limitations so you don't get fooled or lied to.But finding out is half the fun..
 
Well that tek scope sold for $99.... the difference in a Tek verses other brands, is you can probably turn it on in 20 years and it is still going to be working, and probably in cal. They have been, and still are the leader in scopes for over 50 years. I have a 7704A tek I bought out of one of their service centers in 1980, that was 10 years old then, and still works perfectly today, 30 years later. Want to share a waveform online? Have a digital camera?
 
rigol it is

I went ahead and ordered the Rigol DS1052E for $395 shipped. The specs and features are more than sufficient for what I want to do and from all the reviews I read people only had good things to say about it and the screen, no comments about low resolution etc. It's a standard size and is 320 X 240 resolution but probably lower pixel count than a tek, although I couldn't find the specifications for their LCD screens.

Hopefully it turns out to be a good scope, it has a 3 year manufacturers warranty (which hopefully the company honors, pretty sure they're out of China so communication may be less than easy). I'll take it into work and put it side by side with the high-dollar tek digital scopes we have there. I might try and post some screen captures of the comparison if it's not to hard to use the USB export features.
 
Very good, can't wait to hear or read your opinion about it. Just be aware that with any electronic item if you modify it the warranty is void. Having said that I had my scope for 2 weeks before I hacked it to 100 Mhz. with the firmware change.

I'm glad I did it and I'm comfortable with its quality so it should be working fine for many years.
 
Been reading this thread with interest because I have been thinking about getting a scope myself. There is one close by (4 channel HP 54602B) but one of the channels is dead. Is that a big problem? Would be using this for diagnostics on older tube gear.
 
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