P-Mount question

[chicks]

Technics SL-QL15 Find & P-Mount question

Picked up a Technics SL-QL15 TT at the GW today in unbelievable condition, like it had never been used - not a scratch or speck of dust on it, the platter was locked down, the tape was still holding the stylus assy to the cart, even the cardboard between the dustcover and plinth was on it. It was set for 220V, had to ask for a screwdriver to set it for testing. Grabbed an LP, and it found all the tracks.

Unfortunately, the stylus was missing. :tears: I have an Audio-technica AT 92ECD at home, which is a low cost but decent "universal" P-and-1/2" Mount cart. Since there's no counterweight on this linear tracker, just a 3-position tracking-weight switch, obviously a replacement cart would need to be exactly the same weight as the cart it replaces.

Does the P-Mount standard include the weight of the cart? Do all P-Mount carts need to be the same weight? In other words, can I use the AT 92ECD on this deck, :yes: or should I order a replacement stylus?

 

[chicks]

Use the force, Luke. Asked and answered here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250602&page=2

 

[Aerobat]

Yep, any P-mount cart will work. The 92E is fine but entry-level.

Congrats on your find, I also scroed a QL15 over the weekend but in sad cosmetic shape. After a whole lot of elbow grease it's coming back, and after a thorough service (the grease was sticky like glue) it sounds quite good.

 

[chicks]

Here are some photos of the TT as found - I haven't even dusted it off. No sun fading, no dust, no scratches - looks like someone broke the cantilever off the stylus when it was brand new, then stuck it in a box and forgot about it. The platter locks are in place, and the cardboard is there between the dustcover and plinth. I've never seen a piece of gear in such pristine shape at a GW! It's definitely not going to displace my JVC QL-A75, but will be fun to play with for a while...

 

[cactuscowboy]

Very nice!

Those clowns at the thrift didn't write the price on it with a Sharpie, did they?

 

[chicks]

Very nice!

Those clowns at the thrift didn't write the price on it with a Sharpie, did they?

Nah, it comes right off with water and a rag.

 

[iLUVanalog]

Picked up a Technics SL-QL15 TT at the GW today in unbelievable condition, like it had never been used - not a scratch or speck of dust on it, the platter was locked down, the tape was still holding the stylus assy to the cart, even the cardboard between the dustcover and plinth was on it. It was set for 220V, had to ask for a screwdriver to set it for testing. Grabbed an LP, and it found all the tracks.

Unfortunately, the stylus was missing. :tears: I have an Audio-technica AT 92ECD at home, which is a low cost but decent "universal" P-and-1/2" Mount cart. Since there's no counterweight on this linear tracker, just a 3-position tracking-weight switch, obviously a replacement cart would need to be exactly the same weight as the cart it replaces.

Does the P-Mount standard include the weight of the cart? Do all P-Mount carts need to be the same weight? In other words, can I use the AT 92ECD on this deck, :yes: or should I order a replacement stylus?

There isn't exactly a "standard"....most p-mounts are either 5.9 grams or 6 grams. There are other p-mounts whose weights vary a little in each direction.

 

[SA-708]

Actually, there is an exact "T4P" standard that calls for a cartridge mass of 6 grams and a tracking force of 1.25 grams. Not all p-mount cartridges match the standard.

 

[dlaloum]

Ditto

T4P means fully compliant (weight, tracking force, stylus overhang etc...)

p-Mount means it uses the same connector/plug in but weight, tracking force and other parameters are likely to be different. (usually not too different as even adjustable p-mount tables have more limited adjustment than 1/2")

 

[Sir MLS]

You could also just order a new stylus for that cartridge body. You could probably order a better stylus for the same money as a P-mount cartridge.

I put a D-shibata on my old cartridge body and it was a significant improvement.

Scott

 

[dlaloum]

You could also just order a new stylus for that cartridge body. You could probably order a better stylus for the same money as a P-mount cartridge.

I put a D-shibata on my old cartridge body and it was a significant improvement.

Scott

If the original was a standard conical it would be a huge improvement, if it was a "mere" eliptical it would still be substantial.

And with most of the common cartridges, you can get Shibata's and sometimes even microridge/microline styli (such as the Jico SAS).

Also in the p-mount world you can often pick up a great generator (cartridge body) for a song (like $20 or less) for which you can then order a Shibata or SAS stylus and end up with a high end cartridge for $120.

The AT12 series bodies were/are top end, relatively common and frequently forgotten (also available in the higher spec. signet versions), then there are the shure/realistic p-mounts which can take the M97 styli with brush - both are examples of very high quality generators, with a readily available range of top end styli - the combo of which should be possible at under $150

Or order a Digitrac 300SE from turntableneedles.com for around $150, and you end up with an equivalent to the Ortofon OM30 (from a failed Ortofon spin off series).

Any of these options will end up competitive with current cartridges/styli combos retailing at between $250 to $350

The AT92 is a perfectly good p-mount (I think it is actually T4P) - and available needles include:
Shibata http://www.turntableneedles.com/Needle-213-Dshibata_p_960.html $80
AT Vivid Line (MicroRidge type I believe) http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=LPGATNSERIESVL - also $80
Not to mention the range of cheaper Eliptical (various diameters), Hypereliptical, and conicals.

For minimal wear and ease of use I would pick the Shibata - for ultimate sound quality on good quality vinyl I would pick the Vivid Line. (the Shibata tends to sound better on worn records, and has a reputation for being less destructive to vinyl when nearing the end of its life)

 

[iLUVanalog]

Actually, there is an exact "T4P" standard that calls for a cartridge mass of 6 grams and a tracking force of 1.25 grams. Not all p-mount cartridges match the standard.

Yes, there is the T4P "standard", but as you say later, NOT ALL p-mounts conform to it. And regardless of the "standard" 1.25 tracking force, the tracking force should be fine-tuned for best sound/performance, based on the type of stylus a given cartridge has. I've owned p-mount tables in the past, and despite the "factory set" tracking force, the small counterweight in the back of the arm is not "stationary" so that it can't be turned....it can be turned and the VTA adjusted. A perfect example of this is the Technics SL-Q30, which I still have....the VTA is totally adjustable by turning the knurled bolt at the rear of the tonearm, and I have a tracking force gauge that confirms the VTA can be adjusted.

 

[Jonny Ramone]

You should probably give it a mechanical tune-up before you put a fresh cart on it. The tone-arm is driven by a belt that's probably "set" and dried out. The lube on the glide bar is probably also gummy at this point. I used a cassette deck belt, by measuring the old one, and ordering a close size. Vinylengine might have a free service manual. It's a common procedure on linears at this point.

 

[SA-708]

Yes, there is the T4P "standard", but as you say later, NOT ALL p-mounts conform to it. And regardless of the "standard" 1.25 tracking force, the tracking force should be fine-tuned for best sound/performance, based on the type of stylus a given cartridge has. I've owned p-mount tables in the past, and despite the "factory set" tracking force, the small counterweight in the back of the arm is not "stationary" so that it can't be turned....it can be turned and the VTA adjusted. A perfect example of this is the Technics SL-Q30, which I still have....the VTA is totally adjustable by turning the knurled bolt at the rear of the tonearm, and I have a tracking force gauge that confirms the VTA can be adjusted.

I think you mean vertical tracking force (VTF) not vertical tracking angle (VTA).

I've got a similar Technics pivot-arm p-mount turntable, but I've never adjusted the tracking force. There's also an adjustment screw under the "anti-skating was set at the factory" label, and resetting anti-skate to match would be a pain. I just stick to T4P-compliant cartridges on it, and save the odd-ball mass-or-tracking force p-mount cartridges (such as Ortofon OMP and Grado Prestige) for my SL-M3 and SL-MA1, where the tracking force (and anti-skate on the MA1) is easier to adjust.