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P-Mount Shure Cartridge Questions

D

Decibel_116

AK Subscriber
Hello everyone! I am getting back into vinyl again and have a dilemma on my hands. I currently have a Technics SL-7 TT with a Shure V15LT installed. In the past, I was extremely satisfied with the sound from this system. However, I have been searching for a replacement stylus and have come up with nothing. From what I understand, the V15LT is the P-mount version of the V15type IV. I really want to get the same or better performance that I have with the V15LT.

I have been doing some research and read that the N97XE stylus works in the M105E cartridge very well. I found a few older Shure P-Mounts and purchased them, but wanted to see if anyone had any experience with any of these or know of a suitable replacement stylus for the V15 LT. Here is a list of what I have acquired so far, all of them Shure products:

Cartridges:

NOS M110HE w/new stylus
1200HRP (no stylus)
500S (no stylus)
Presence 4 (new aftermarket N97LT stylus)
RXT5 (no stylus)
M105E (no stylus)

Stylus:
N97LT (NOS)
N97LT (JICO)
N104E (NOS)
N110HE (JICO)

I have also read that the M92e with the N97xe is a good combination. I would also like to figure out which of these cartridge/stylus combinations work together.

Any inputs/recommendations are very much appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Decibel_116 said:
Hello everyone! I am getting back into vinyl again and have a dilemma on my hands. I currently have a Technics SL-7 TT with a Shure V15LT installed. In the past, I was extremely satisfied with the sound from this system. However, I have been searching for a replacement stylus and have come up with nothing. From what I understand, the V15LT is the P-mount version of the V15type IV. I really want to get the same or better performance that I have with the V15LT.
Click to expand...

The SAS type 772-DSAS for Shure VN45HE may be the best replacement stylus available (from JICO of Japan).

Please check with the other AK member to make sure that it is.:music:

http://www.turntableneedles.com/JICO-SAS-type-772-DSAS-for-Shure-VN45HE_p_3794.html
 
I found this awhile back too, but JICO said that it will not fit the V15LT (P-Mount). They used to make one of these for the V15LT(VN45LT) but they discontinued it. I'm on the waiting list if they make more. I suppose they are waiting for more buyers before they manufacture more. I wish it would fit. I would buy 10 of them!
 
JICO may be referring to the plastic foliage on the V15LT, which I believe prevents the VN45HE-SAS from going on all the way [UPDATE: It does]. I can do some poking around with my V15LT and some JICO SAS styli with the brush and try to figure out what JICO's talking about. Either way, it shouldn't be too hard to pop that plastic off the metal body-- it's never glued on very tight.

In the meantime, the best stylus you have is the N97LT, a hyperelliptical on a nice lightweight cantilever. It's second banana to your V15LT's stylus.
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As good as the N97LT is, it's not "the same or better" than your VN45LT. For that, I don't see a cost-effective alternative to the JICO SAS unless you get lucky with a yard sale or eBay (see post 12), and even if you do, you can't beat the availability of a stylus that's actually in production.

The next worry is how the heavier SAS stylus will affect VTF on your SL-7. Probably it'll be all right, but it remains to be seen. SPOILER: with the cap off, it works. But keep reading...
 
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Is it even possible to use a cartridge with the damping brush on a p-mount tonearm? I would think that would mess with the VTF if the arm was designed around a non-brush cart?
 
I've got a Radio Shack branded Shure p-mount cartridge, the RXT5, where the extra mass of the brush is counteracted by having the brush down. It can be used, but only with the brush down, and with the correct stylus.

No way to tell if the SAS stylus would work with the V15LT, as far as the extra mass of the stylus being counteracted properly by the brush.
 
Well, there is a way-- I'd have to weigh a brush-equipped SAS, subtract the weight of the brush itself (0.25g), then compare that to the weight of the LT stylus. Then I'd have to weigh the V15LT's decorative plastic cap that keys with its stylus to see, if that were removed, whether it would compensate enough to reach a net VTF of 1.25g with the SL-7's limited adjustability. [UPDATE: well, I used a simpler method, but same idea. See post 24.]

VTF wouldn't be so important if we were dealing with, say, an M97HE stylus, but JICO's warnings against exceeding the maximum specified VTF on the SAS (1.5g), considering the tiny bearing surfaces involved, should be scrupulously observed, IMO. And even Shure sets well-defined limits-- no more than 1.25g for the VN45LT (same as the VN45HE).
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The SL-7 does have the ability to adjust the VTF from 1.25-1.75 (I think), well I know it gives you 3 options I just can't remember what they are atm, which may or may not counteract the brush. But, exactly dialing the VTF might be difficult with the brush on. Neat turntables, that's for sure.
 
Wow, thanks! I didn't see that one. Last night I found one on a German website as well. Very expensive with the exchange rates.
 
Which cartridge is best for the N97LT stylus?

If the N97LT stylus is the best one I have, will it fit any of the cartridges I have? Are any of the cartridges I have equivalent to a M97LT cartridge?
 
The 1200HRP has lower inductance (~550mH), and the 500S is in the middle of the pack at ~630mH (at least mine is), but any of your other Shures basically have M97 (ie, 700 to 800mH) guts. I don't believe you'd hear much of a difference between the bodies you have-- you'd have to measure them to know which one is closest to spec and/or has the best channel matching.

Your N97LT and the stylus in your M110HE are spec'd the same on paper. It's not likely, but it's possible they sound a little different; try swapping them. According to Shure, they have the same trackability figures. And the construction is the same (the telescoped cantilever introduced with the V15 Type IV).

By the way, the 1200HRP doesn't differ that much from the others-- you could run the N97LT in it to give the top octave a little extra sparkle. Try it.
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Someone had asked if you can use styli with stabilizer brushes, like the M97xE, or it's SAS counterpart, on a Pmount cartridge... Yes you can, but you have to have adjustable VTF.

I use a Shure N97E stylus on my Pmount Shure LTP-2 cartridge, and it works great! My tonearm has adjustable VTF, (well sort of... Adjustable from 1.0-1.5g when using a standard Pmount cartridge,) so I just have to use a digital scale to set it up. At the 1.5g setting with the N97E installed, my actual VTF weighed in at about 2.3g. I just had to back it off 5.5g, and it works great tracking at 1.75g, brush-down. The overhang is real close, if not dead on.

Overhang would be my biggest concern when using aftermarket styli designed for other bodies.
 
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Do you have one of those linear trackers with the arm not built into the lid?

Did you mean N97ED? i.e. Era IV, like the LTP body?
 
No, I'm using the modern N97E from the M97xE. It fits well, and sounds pretty nice. My LTP-2 is a V-bottom cart, very similar to the M92E. Looking at photos, I'm not sure that the OP's V15LT cart would accept the N97E stylus because of the aluminum trim on the top. Assuming it would, the N97E is a far heavier stylus, so you'll need an adjustable counterweight if you want to try it.

I'm using a Technics SL-QX300 with a pivoting arm. An LT with the tonearm might not work... depends on the design. Did any of those Technics LTs have adjustable VTF?
 
The Technics LTs have a limited VTF adjustment range, ca 1-1.5gm. The M97xE stylus isn't really suitable for them as it increases the weight of a Shure 'P'-mount cart out-of-T4P spec and in any case use of the brush isn't recommended for LT use IIRC.
 
That's true. I'm not too worried, since mine is a pivoting arm, but I can't see why it wouldn't work on an LT... :scratch2: I do suppose it would be hard to get a scale under the lid.

I track mine at 1.75g according to a digital scale and ignore the scale on the counterweight, which is kind of a guess-timate at best anyway. I figure T4P spec doesn't matter much if I'm not using a stylus designed for a T4P cartridge. As long as overhang, VTA, VTF, and AS are correct, and compliance matching is remotely in the ballpark, it'll do a good job dragging the stylus through the groove.

Another interesting note... T4P spec seems to be a adhered to a little loosely by some manufacturers, anyway. My AT92ECD cartridge is quite a bit lighter than my Stanton 720P. When I set my T4P scale on my Technics to 1.5g, it's pretty close to accurate when using the AT. When I put on the Stanton, it's tracking closer to 1.7g in reality! That's technically out of T4P spec, and only .5g lighter than I'm tracking my hybrid Shure!
 
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