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Pair of Altec 19s not identical…?

SaturationPt said:
Upgrades are a bit tough to recommend as pretty much everything in them can be upgraded so where do you stop? Do you reinforce and seal the cabinets, move the terminals, improve the crossover, install a better horn, a better woofer, improve the porting, the cabinet damping, and still call it an ALTEC Model Nineteen or just start over?

Great speakers stock for what they are, enjoy.
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I think "Upgrades"are for Klipschies; they need 'em. But the Model 19 is one of the best all in one box turnkey speakers ever made and is best kept in ideal stock condition--the only work that should be done on them is maintenance needed to keep stock performance.

That's what I think.
 
i agree, i have an extra XO set to experiment/play with so that i can keep them 'stock' otherwise.
what would you advice in my situation with the different phase plugs and one woofer re-coned - keep them as they are...?
 
dvican said:
i agree, i have an extra XO set to experiment/play with so that i can keep them 'stock' otherwise.
what would you advice in my situation with the different phase plugs and one woofer re-coned - keep them as they are...?
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I'd use a pair of 802-G or 902 compression drivers, the ones that came in 19s. My 19s had the 802-Gs and when just for Hell of it I installed 902s I couldn't tell a difference.

If the woofer was reconed with Altec or GPA parts I'd keep it. Otherwise I'd look for another 416 or do another recone with proper parts.
 
I'm not an expert but can add some insight.
Bowtie is the king of Altec details.

My pair were of the ferrite variety. So, 902-8A compression drivers and 416-8C ferrite woofs. I had those reconed with GPA parts.
The early versions came with 416-8B woofs and 802-8G compression drivers.
416-8B of course was alnico. As are your drivers. the 416-8A/8Z you have are simply 16" frame versions. The earlier 416 wouldn't fit in the cabinet.
So different magnet structure, but I'd bet the performance is the same as the -8B.

The 802-8G had a special light weight diaphragm. They did indeed have better extreme HF extension. The frams haven't been available for many years. You would have to disassemble yours to check the part number. If you have the original fram, it would be worth searching for a mate.
The 802-8D will sound different. Some folks prefer the older phase plug.

In mine, I run the 23746 806 style tangerine HF driver. Rather rare. They do have the lightweight frams.
I swapped out the ferrite 416's in favor of 416-8A 16" frame woofers. As Bowtie always said, the 416-8C just didn't sound as good as the 416-8B, and to my ears, he was exactly correct. I'll add that I re-coned the woofers myself with MWA parts. The frames were originally biflex woofers that I got cheap due to bad cones.

Enjoy!
 
RonSSNova said:
I'm not an expert but can add some insight.
Bowtie is the king of Altec details.

My pair were of the ferrite variety. So, 902-8A compression drivers and 416-8C ferrite woofs. I had those reconed with GPA parts.
The early versions came with 416-8B woofs and 802-8G compression drivers.
416-8B of course was alnico. As are your drivers. the 416-8A/8Z you have are simply 16" frame versions. The earlier 416 wouldn't fit in the cabinet.
So different magnet structure, but I'd bet the performance is the same as the -8B.

The 802-8G had a special light weight diaphragm. They did indeed have better extreme HF extension. The frams haven't been available for many years. You would have to disassemble yours to check the part number. If you have the original fram, it would be worth searching for a mate.
The 802-8D will sound different. Some folks prefer the older phase plug.

In mine, I run the 23746 806 style tangerine HF driver. Rather rare. They do have the lightweight frams.
I swapped out the ferrite 416's in favor of 416-8A 16" frame woofers. As Bowtie always said, the 416-8C just didn't sound as good as the 416-8B, and to my ears, he was exactly correct. I'll add that I re-coned the woofers myself with MWA parts. The frames were originally biflex woofers that I got cheap due to bad cones.

Enjoy!
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great, thank you for the info. an altec universe...
i have 23744s in both, and am looking out for a mate to the 8G nevertheless, if only to sooth my nervosis. over the weekend i was finally able to figure out the network l-pads' positions to my liking - it took me a while but wow, what a show...! now i'm sccared to touch anything, lol
 
dvican said:
now i'm sccared to touch anything, lol
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I'd suggest you leave them right where they are and save yourself now.:p Early on I had my A5s sounding really, really good with a nice 3D presentation with some music that would give me chill bumps. Striving for perfection, I put oil caps and air core inductors in the crossovers and moved them to a better part of the room and changed drivers around. They still sound real good but I'm going to put the cheap poly caps back in and likely move them back where they were to see if I'm imagining it. :crazy:

edit: polypropylene that is
 
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yeah, i read (here?) that there is a difference between the polyester and polypropylene caps and one should stick with the polyesters. i need to learn more, and more...
 
edited my post above

I prefer polypropylene to 50 year old polyester. Don't know about new polyester except for my leisure suit.:)
 
Tom Brennan said:
I think "Upgrades"are for Klipschies; they need 'em. But the Model 19 is one of the best all in one box turnkey speakers ever made and is best kept in ideal stock condition--the only work that should be done on them is maintenance needed to keep stock performance.

That's what I think.
Click to expand...
Other than a blanket draped over the 811 ...
 
MissionX said:
edited my post above

I prefer polypropylene to 50 year old polyester. Don't know about new polyester except for my leisure suit.:)
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ha, i think my dad has a shirt i could borrow for critical listening sessions. solen still makes a few is all i found so far...
 
RonSSNova said:
Such hate for the 811.
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The 811 and 511 are out of style but sound good when used right. I screwed around with horns from JBL, EV, Altec, Emilar, McCauley, Klipsch Pro, PAudio, Bruce Edgar, Eminence---radials, multi cells, CDs, lenses; tractrix, exponential, conical; wide pattern, narrow pattern; wood horns, metal horns, plastic horns---and am still fond of the 511 and 811.
 
It would be interesting to build a new top for the M19 that fits a 511. It wouldn’t be hard as it simply unbolts.
I’ve had a pair of MR994A small format Altec CD horns that I haven’t played with for a long time. Those might be interesting as well.

Sorry to the OP for getting a bit off track here.
 
no worries - its all new and super interesting to me. besides size, and hence the lower xo point, what other benefits would there be from using the 511s? just curious...
 
dvican said:
no worries - its all new and super interesting to me. besides size, and hence the lower xo point, what other benefits would there be from using the 511s? just curious...
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IMO None. Using the 511 and a lower crossover point means the speaker is no longer a 19 and the careful work of the Altec engineers in designing one of the finest speakers ever has gone to waste. Note too that one reason 1200hz was chosen as the crossover was to match the directivity of the woofer and horn at the crossover point. That helps with coherency. Another thing; the tangerine plug drivers don't respond as low as the earlier drivers and aren't good going down to 500hz.
 
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The MR horn from the 14s would have been an interesting choice for the 19. But then again, the Grand National was quicker than the 'vette when new.
 
I wasn’t inferring changing the xover. Altec paired the N1201, 416-8B, 802-8G and the 511 in the A7X VOTT. I bought a new pair of those in 1977.
 
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