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Pairing an Amp / Receiver with Altec 19s

S

ScottLesq

New Member
I recently purchased a pair of Altec 19s and they sound very good but honestly seem underpowered.

My system is set up so that my components run through an HH Scott 222B and then I use the Channel Out to connect to the tape input on a Marantz 2270. The Altec 19s are the only speakers being run out of the Marantz. I also run a set of Klipsch Heresey's independently through the Scott 222B. The Altec's sound good but to my ears, still slightly underpowered.

I'm considering purchasing a Carver M-400 to connect to the Marantz with the Altec 19s running through the Carver with the volume/ tone/ bass being controlled by the Marantz. Seemingly this would produce another 400 wpc and should be suffient to drive the 19s.

Alternatively, going in a different direction and purchasing another receiver/ amp. Want to keep my system vintage so anything I purchase needs to be pre-1978 and my budget (or should I say my wife's budget) is in the area of $1,000.00 so sadly, expensive Mac Tube amps are not an option. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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While fairly efficient, 70wpc isn't a lot of power for those speakers.

Feed the signal from the Marantz pre out to the input of the Carver and hook the speakers to the Carver.

While the additional power may be welcome, the sound may be different than what you expect. While still an SS amp, the Marantz has a warmer, tube like sound that the Carver probably does not. Not nessicarily a bad thing, just different. Only you can decide.
 
I'll tell you a little secret about the Carver cube - unless you upgrade the fuse, it will only do about 140 wpc in its factory stock mode. They also are all about 40 years old, and the triac will start to pulse, which the hyperefficient Model 19s will be happy to tell you. Stay away from the cube, unless you absolutely need one, and know Rita or Bob personally.

A much better amp to investigate would be the Nakamichi PA7, which is a superior mate to the 19s. I just can't imagine "needing" more than 20 to 30 watts with 19s unless you are running a Headbangers' Ball every night. I have measured mine at 100dB/2.83/1 meter, which falls right in with their published specs.

http://lansingheritage.org/images/altec/specs/home-systems/model-19/page2.jpg
 
ScottLesq said:
I recently purchased a pair of Altec 19s and they sound very good but honestly seem underpowered.

My system is set up so that my components run through an HH Scott 222B and then I use the Channel Out to connect to the tape input on a Marantz 2270. The Altec 19s are the only speakers being run out of the Marantz. I also run a set of Klipsch Heresey's independently through the Scott 222B. The Altec's sound good but to my ears, still slightly underpowered.

I'm considering purchasing a Carver M-400 to connect to the Marantz with the Altec 19s running through the Carver with the volume/ tone/ bass being controlled by the Marantz. Seemingly this would produce another 400 wpc and should be suffient to drive the 19s.

Alternatively, going in a different direction and purchasing another receiver/ amp. Want to keep my system vintage so anything I purchase needs to be pre-1978 and my budget (or should I say my wife's budget) is in the area of $1,000.00 so sadly, expensive Mac Tube amps are not an option. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Frankly, I can see little benefit to be had by running the Model 19 with amplifiers over 100 w. If a Mc tube amplifier is out (which predates the 19 anyway) and if your desire to match the period of manufacture of the electronics with that of the Altecs that will work well with them that fits your budget, I humbly suggest a McIntosh MAC 4100 receiver and not look back.
 
I'll admit I'm a Mac owner, but a friend of mine is running his Mac ML-2C 88 db 1 watt 4 ft with a Hafler 200 watt perchannel FET amp and the sound is great. He bought it as a kit. There are a lot of professional Haflers out there that might be what you really need. The woofer in the Model 19 was rated around 75 watts RMS withan additional 6 db peaking factor above resonance, 60 Hz or so, 300watts. So a 300 watt amp under proper supervision will work. The HF diaphragm is only rated at 15 watts RMS but as the crossover is an octave higher than 500 HZ and the HF out put is attenuated to match the woofer by at least 6 db you should be OK. Just DON"T allow the amp to clip!!!!!! What you want is a good old MAC 2200 or 2250 without meters, even a 2150 without meters. Same glorious sound with Power Guard, but Oh so much more affordable.
 
sqlsavior said:
Have you tried running the Altecs off the Scott, like the Hereseys? I would think if one works, so would the other...

;)
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Good thought but the Scott is a tube amp that only puts out 14 wpc so I don't see this as a likely solution. Also, I like options of having two independent amps. The Hereseys running through the Scott offer a nice warm alternative when I'm not looking to peel my wig back.
 
sheltie dave said:
I'll tell you a little secret about the Carver cube - unless you upgrade the fuse, it will only do about 140 wpc in its factory stock mode. They also are all about 40 years old, and the triac will start to pulse, which the hyperefficient Model 19s will be happy to tell you. Stay away from the cube, unless you absolutely need one, and know Rita or Bob personally.

A much better amp to investigate would be the Nakamichi PA7, which is a superior mate to the 19s. I just can't imagine "needing" more than 20 to 30 watts with 19s unless you are running a Headbangers' Ball every night. I have measured mine at 100dB/2.83/1 meter, which falls right in with their published specs.

http://lansingheritage.org/images/altec/specs/home-systems/model-19/page2.jpg
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply, the more I investigate the Carver it doesn't seem like an option. Some serious negative reviews out there including people referring to it as a "flamethrower." Yikes. Can't imagine having to explain to my wife that the source of our house fire was the "old" stereo system that "I'm always wasting my time on."
 
I did have the opportunity to listen to the 19s before I purchased them. The owner was running them through an older 80's Pioneer receiver which he informed had about 120 wpc. Based on the reviews I had read beforehand, I thought that the Marantz 2270 would be sufficient and really, if I hadn't heard 19s through the Pioneer I probably wouldn't be aware of the difference. Don't get me wrong, the sound is still amazing but now that I'm aware that they can sound even fuller, it's bugging me and I feel like I need to do something to just push it over the goal line. A friend of mine is bringing over a Conrad Johnson MF-200 amp and we're going to run it through the 2270 as WMGWIZARD suggested above. This, I'm hoping will answer the question if in fact it's simply just slightly underpowered with only the 2270 driving it. Anyone familiar with the Conrad amp?

Those of you who shared your thoughts and recommendations, my sincere thanks and appreciation.
 
If anyone began extolling the virtues of running high power amplifiers with loudspeakers of very high sensitivity - to the man who for 60 years designed and manufactured such with the initials of PWK - said individual would soon find one of these buttons staring him in the eye revealed from an upturned jacket lapel, specially worn for such occasions.

I daresay that is what would probably happen under such circumstances - and likely already has more than once. :D

Bullshit-Button-Lapel-1-Facebook-bw.jpg
 
62caddy said:
If anyone began extolling the virtues of running high power amplifiers with loudspeakers of very high sensitivity - to the man who for 60 years designed and manufactured such with the initials of PWK - said individual would soon find one of these buttons staring him in the eye revealed from an upturned jacket lapel, specially worn for such occasions.

I daresay that is what would probably happen under such circumstances - and likely already has more than once. :D

Bullshit-Button-Lapel-1-Facebook-bw.jpg
Click to expand...
62caddy said:
If anyone began extolling the virtues of running high power amplifiers with loudspeakers of very high sensitivity - to the man who for 60 years designed and manufactured such with the initials of PWK - said individual would soon find one of these buttons staring him in the eye revealed from an upturned jacket lapel, specially worn for such occasions.

I daresay that is what would probably happen under such circumstances - and likely already has more than once. :D

Bullshit-Button-Lapel-1-Facebook-bw.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks for the high-brow extollment my pompous friend. You should try some new initials DICK.
 
I've only heard the 19's a few times and in each case they were powered by more than 60 watts of tube power. And they played PLENTY loud. Now I have some Cerwin Vega speakers that have a high efficiency rating but have never performed even close to their potential without at least a good clean 150 wpc. It may be that in your place you need some extra oomph to get the most of them. I think once you test them out with a more powerful amp you will surprised. And you just might be hooked on that CJ amp as well! Be forewarned!
 
While I provided a recommendation of a Nakamichi PA7 for a very high level of quality control, the amps I commonly throw into play with my Model 19s, in a 16' by 26' basement kitchen, are a 1 watt custom SET amp with 2A3s, a 2 watt SET amp, and a 3 watt Sun Audio SET amp. If more power is desired, we roll to a 14 watt Eico HF81. A hundred watt amp would tend to blow Donald Trump's hairpiece off from three states away. :eek:





What 62Caddy was stressing is that the original designers of these speakers did not build them to sound their best with brontosaurus amplifiers; no, they designed them to work with small to moderately powered tube amps that allowed their best to be displayed from the lowest of low power to thirty or forty watts. Unless, of course, you are working in a room that normally house B52s.:hug:
 
Out of curiosity, could you please explain what you mean by "sound underpowered?" Not a cynical question, I'm simply wondering what that means. What I'm thinking is that you mean they sound thin with little bass response. Is that correct? Just the opposite sound, I would think, should come from the 2270. It has more than sufficient power for the Model 19s, and its reputation for warm (forward bass and mid bass) sound qualities should blend perfectly with the 19s. In short, you are running a combination of equipment that should = warm low frequencies with That Altec Sound in the mids and highs. Instead they sound "underpowered."

I think you are heading in the right direction by trying the 19s with a variety of amplifiers. Wish you could find a Pioneer SX1250/1280 to test them with. This is probably what the original owner was demoing them with.

My thinking, though, is that if your Model 19s are in primo condition (and have the original woofer and horn driver specifications), the problem is going to be found in the Marantz. I'll bet that something is preventing the 2270 from delivering lower/mid to low/bass response the way it should.

Just my few shekel.

GeeDeeEmm
 
I use 18 watt per channel st-35 clone tube amp with altec model 18.... I hardly ever go over half volume... and that is when i feel like jamming.... big altecs are pretty efficient and don't need big power... IMO ... something else may be going on...
 
I simply cannot imagine needing more than 20-30 wpc for a pair of 19s in a domestic setting. Although the 19s aren't my favorite Altec speaker, when properly set up they can be incredibly revealing. Such a speaker us capable of showcasing shortcomings in media, source, and amplification.

This is also a speaker that would require close attention paid to its location within the listening space. A live room with a lot of reflective surfaces could have one running for cover.

When I owned 19s, my McIntosh MC240 achieved the best synergy with them of all the amps I owned then.

Oh ... 62caddy is among the most knowledgable and helpful of any member here. His reply put a smile on my face. Obviously, his intended humor was lost ...
 
sheltie dave said:
While I provided a recommendation of a Nakamichi PA7 for a very high level of quality control, the amps I commonly throw into play with my Model 19s, in a 16' by 26' basement kitchen, are a 1 watt custom SET amp with 2A3s, a 2 watt SET amp, and a 3 watt Sun Audio SET amp. If more power is desired, we roll to a 14 watt Eico HF81. A hundred watt amp would tend to blow Donald Trump's hairpiece off from three states away. :eek:





What 62Caddy was stressing is that the original designers of these speakers did not build them to sound their best with brontosaurus amplifiers; no, they designed them to work with small to moderately powered tube amps that allowed their best to be displayed from the lowest of low power to thirty or forty watts. Unless, of course, you are working in a room that normally house B52s.:hug:[
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gdmoore28 said:
Out of curiosity, could you please explain what you mean by "sound underpowered?" Not a cynical question, I'm simply wondering what that means. What I'm thinking is that you mean they sound thin with little bass response. Is that correct? Just the opposite sound, I would think, should come from the 2270. It has more than sufficient power for the Model 19s, and its reputation for warm (forward bass and mid bass) sound qualities should blend perfectly with the 19s. In short, you are running a combination of equipment that should = warm low frequencies with That Altec Sound in the mids and highs. Instead they sound "underpowered."

I think you are heading in the right direction by trying the 19s with a variety of amplifiers. Wish you could find a Pioneer SX1250/1280 to test them with. This is probably what the original owner was demoing them with.

My thinking, though, is that if your Model 19s are in primo condition (and have the original woofer and horn driver specifications), the problem is going to be found in the Marantz. I'll bet that something is preventing the 2270 from delivering lower/mid to low/bass response the way it should.

Just my few shekel.

GeeDeeEmm
Click to expand...
 
gdmoore28 said:
Out of curiosity, could you please explain what you mean by "sound underpowered?" Not a cynical question, I'm simply wondering what that means. What I'm thinking is that you mean they sound thin with little bass response. Is that correct? Just the opposite sound, I would think, should come from the 2270. It has more than sufficient power for the Model 19s, and its reputation for warm (forward bass and mid bass) sound qualities should blend perfectly with the 19s. In short, you are running a combination of equipment that should = warm low frequencies with That Altec Sound in the mids and highs. Instead they sound "underpowered."

I think you are heading in the right direction by trying the 19s with a variety of amplifiers. Wish you could find a Pioneer SX1250/1280 to test them with. This is probably what the original owner was demoing them with.

My thinking, though, is that if your Model 19s are in primo condition (and have the original woofer and horn driver specifications), the problem is going to be found in the Marantz. I'll bet that something is preventing the 2270 from delivering lower/mid to low/bass response the way it should.

Just my few shekel.

GeeDeeEmm
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Thanks GeeDee, I did try the Marantz w/ the Hereseys and they sang. Also, the Marantz was just fully serviced by a tech who has a great reputation in this area and there were no issues and the unit checked out perfect. Again, if I hadn't heard these speakers before I purchased them I likely wouldn't have picked up the difference (I've taken room acoustics into account as well). The sound is amazing but the low is lacking some depth (this is what I meant by sounding "underpowered"). Running the Hereseys independently through the Scott (only) adds some great highs and small issues aside, I am loving this combination. Still, looking forward to the C&J demo to see if that gets me over the line. Thank you for the time to write your reply.
 
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