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Palos Park IL ESS Adcom Sansui Denon Sony

KiM3Ce

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https://www.estatesales.net/IL/Palos-Park/60464/2972508

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Can anyone tell if drivers are original just from pic on the Monitors? Other pics of these I've seen the passive woofer look like they are flat in front. Whats a good price day one of sale?
 
Those appear to me to be the last (5th) version of the ESS AMT Monitor from what I can see, but the serial numbers will tell more.

All but the first version have cone passives, they are the same cone and casting as the woofers but without the magnet assembly. The cones are Bextrene (mineral-filled plastic) with a urethene-rubber surround, which on mine had lost some of their elasticity and needed replacement years ago (can't say for all, but I'd expect them to be stiff, maybe even brittle by now if exposed to enough heat and/or UV light as all older rubber and foam degrades). Note the black Heil, also an indicator of later versions, and the closed sides in the tweeter portion of the cabinet, all earlier versions have cutouts in both sides with a grille/screen insert. They also have the late-change to the tilted Heil.

From the photos, it looks like the Heil diaphragm pictured is original and in good condition, all parts intact other than the aftermarket grille material and some veneer damage on the cabinets. I don't see the ESS emblems on the grilles, those will cost money, new surrounds x4 will cost money (and very difficult as the rubber will need to be carefully cut away from fragile Bextrene cones), new grille fabric, some veneer/cabinet repair, and of course they are un-tested. Also check that the grille frames are not broken as they often are.

Were it me, I have two pair and know what they are so I might pay up for another pair of late Monitors like these, I'd be willing to go as high as $750.maybe more. I would use the reconditioning arguements in the above paragraph, the ugly fabric, and the fact that they're nearly 150# each in a world where people are buying small HT and stand-mount speakers (at least as far as an auction employee is concerned). I know I like them and the late version is what I want to start with. If you're not sure whether you want them and especially if you need to send speakers out for repair etc., you might not want them unless under $500. The obliterated serial number (unless it's just the photo) would cause me to ask the auction staff if they were stolen, another reason to lower the asking price. Also check the built-on black base, it was a late change from the solid base to a particle-board riser/base with four feet and wasn't IMO sturdy enough to hold up to decades of moving these heavy beasts around, it might be gone or damaged or at least missing the four corner-mounted feet. Another deduct.

There are no sold examples that I found in a quick search, only a pair with a $1,500 asking on ebay so it's hard to get a current value. Those on ebay are the early foam passives but are otherwise apparently in good condition, but again that's an asking price only. I do feel that a good pair in excellent condition is worth $1,500, and all parts and service are currently available from ESS, but that isn't an auction price unless you really want a pair. The lack of knowledge of the brand ( www.esslabs.com I believe ) make them a bit harder to sell and keep prices down, ... if they said JBL on them they would certainly sell for triple what they bring.

Best of luck. These were the best IMO of the series, built with better drivers and crossovers than the Rock Monitors and sold for more, personal preference here toward a good 2-way but I'm pretty sure you've read the many arguments over which is better. The ability to completely eliminate the crossover on these via rear-panel jumpers and biamp is just frosting on the cake.
 
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Those appear to me to be the last (5th) version of the ESS AMT Monitor from what I can see, but the serial numbers will tell more.

All but the first version have cone passives, they are the same cone and casting as the woofers but without the magnet assembly. The cones are Bextrene (mineral-filled plastic) with a urethene-rubber surround, which on mine had lost some of their elasticity and needed replacement years ago (can't say for all, but I'd expect them to be stiff, maybe even brittle by now if exposed to enough heat and/or UV light as all older rubber and foam degrades). Note the black Heil, also an indicator of later versions, and the closed sides in the tweeter portion of the cabinet, all earlier versions have cutouts in both sides with a grille/screen insert. They also have the late-change to the tilted Heil.

From the photos, it looks like the Heil diaphragm pictured is original and in good condition, all parts intact other than the aftermarket grille material and some veneer damage on the cabinets. I don't see the ESS emblems on the grilles, those will cost money, new surrounds x4 will cost money (and very difficult as the rubber will need to be carefully cut away from fragile Bextrene cones), new grille fabric, some veneer/cabinet repair, and of course they are un-tested. Also check that the grille frames are not broken as they often are.

Were it me, I have two pair and know what they are so I might pay up for another pair of late Monitors like these, I'd be willing to go as high as $750.maybe more. I would use the reconditioning arguements in the above paragraph, the ugly fabric, and the fact that they're nearly 150# each in a world where people are buying small HT and stand-mount speakers (at least as far as an auction employee is concerned). I know I like them and the late version is what I want to start with. If you're not sure whether you want them and especially if you need to send speakers out for repair etc., you might not want them unless under $500. The obliterated serial number (unless it's just the photo) would cause me to ask the auction staff if they were stolen, another reason to lower the asking price. Also check the built-on black base, it was a late change from the solid base to a particle-board riser/base with four feet and wasn't IMO sturdy enough to hold up to decades of moving these heavy beasts around, it might be gone or damaged or at least missing the four corner-mounted feet. Another deduct.

There are no sold examples that I found in a quick search, only a pair with a $1,500 asking on ebay so it's hard to get a current value. Those on ebay are the early foam passives but are otherwise apparently in good condition, but again that's an asking price only. I do feel that a good pair in excellent condition is worth $1,500, and all parts and service are currently available from ESS, but that isn't an auction price unless you really want a pair. The lack of knowledge of the brand ( www.esslabs.com I believe ) make them a bit harder to sell and keep prices down, ... if they said JBL on them they would certainly sell for triple what they bring.

Best of luck. These were the best IMO of the series, built with better drivers and crossovers than the Rock Monitors and sold for more, personal preference here toward a good 2-way but I'm pretty sure you've read the many arguments over which is better. The ability to completely eliminate the crossover on these via rear-panel jumpers and biamp is just frosting on the cake.
 
Thanks for all that. Turns out owner is here and hoping I can talk to him. 150 lbs wow and they are in basement. Lots to digest. Surprised there's not more people here yet.
 
Maybe buy the 2-wheel dolly in the garage to haul them up?

500 bucks it is. Found one badge and left my number in case other shows up. Talked with owner and he says everything is working. Could use veneer work and I'll change out the particle board base with some 1" Baltic Birch scrap leftovers that I used for the KLF-20s in back. Hope the grill cloth grows on me :D. Sell It Again Sams did the sale. Great people. Helped me load them.
 

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You did well indeed.

Try them without the fabric, it doesn't appear to be very transparent (from the picture anyway), I re-covered one pair of mine (the original looks so heavy) in a very nice black speaker fabric from Joanne's Fabrics, happy with the result.

The bases are fine as-is, but the little square pieces that the feet are mounted on are only glued in the corners, ... it really isn't a terrible design except for what it takes to slide the double-thick cabinet around on carpet.

One more thing that you can try is the mod to move the heils back to "phase align" them per ESS's recommendation. I did on both of my pair after moving one pair and liking the difference (when comparing). On yours (like mine) you'll need to dremmel or router out a notch in the support above it for clearance, only necessary on these very late ones with the rubber wedge beneath the Heil.

Happy listening. If the rubber surrounds are petrified you will want to replace the surrounds, easiest method is to carefully cut away the rubber on the woofers and passives, and replace with foam. The woofer needs the high compliance to keep up with the Heil and blend well. Also remove and clean up the jumper strips, a little corrosion can cause a lot of noise.

ESS does sell the badges.
 
Yes will definitely try them without covers. Pic of bottom doesn't show any feet or am I missing something? A mod you say? I will look into that for sure. I'll clean jumper strips before auditioning later and the presence control as it seems a bit stiff. Thanks again for the info!
 

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I see the square piece in the one back corner, with a hole in it from the (nailed in) slider, the others are apparently missing.

Rick at ESS told me to try the MOD on the Heil location, and it does appear that all of their new ones have the Heil located further back.
 
I see the square piece in the one back corner, with a hole in it from the (nailed in) slider, the others are apparently missing.

Rick at ESS told me to try the MOD on the Heil location, and it does appear that all of their new ones have the Heil located further back.
I'll do that Baltic Birch thing maybe with some spikes and sure that Mod sounds doable.

Also the one serial number pictured is just hard to read. Not sure if someone tried to clean it and removed some of it. Up close still hard to read but It's 7308 and the other 7252. Does the crossover just unscrew and pullout or do I have to remove the passive radiator? Looks like 2 screws above and below the bi-amp section on right side.
 
IIRC the crossover is glued and screwed into place, not sure. If you remove the drivers you can probably service the crossover just fine in place, I believe that there are 5 electrolytic caps and 4 air-core inductors in the late design.

6Ohms is my recollection, but there are several versions. The one that crosses over at 1kHz is 5Ohms, at 800Hz is 6Ohms according to these:

Oddly enough, the one claiming 6Ohms is a later version with the AMT 1D and by that time the passive was Bextrene, the specs are still listing the polystyrene foam flat passive. Oh ESS, how complicated you make life.
 

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IIRC the crossover is glued and screwed into place, not sure. If you remove the drivers you can probably service the crossover just fine in place, I believe that there are 5 electrolytic caps and 4 air-core inductors in the late design.

6Ohms is my recollection, but there are several versions. The one that crosses over at 1kHz is 5Ohms, at 800Hz is 6Ohms according to these:

Oddly enough, the one claiming 6Ohms is a later version with the AMT 1D and by that time the passive was Bextrene, the specs are still listing the polystyrene foam flat passive. Oh ESS, how complicated you make life.
You are a wealth of knowledge regarding these my friend. I just rebuilt a Sansui 9090 and will try that with the Monitors. Sansui manual says 4 ohms OK as long as only one pair of speakers hooked up.
Hard work has been done. Paid for, moved out of basement up to 3rd floor apartment. Now what music do I listen to1st on them? :) And yes they do make it complicated.
 
What music? I'd go with pretty much anythng!

I characterize them as having the fast & airy highs of my Acoustat 1+1s, with the fast & deep bass of my JBL 240Tis. They are reasonably efficient but can take lots of power.

If your rubber surrounds are original, they will probably hold the woofers and passives back a bit, but surprisingly good anyway. Replace those surrounds and EL caps and you'll see what all of the fuss is about with the Great Heils.
 
500 bucks it is. Found one badge and left my number in case other shows up. Talked with owner and he says everything is working. Could use veneer work and I'll change out the particle board base with some 1" Baltic Birch scrap leftovers that I used for the KLF-20s in back. Hope the grill cloth grows on me :D. Sell It Again Sams did the sale. Great people. Helped me load them.
Excellent decision, take your time and fresh them up a bit you're going to have a hell of a pair of speakers. Those big Heils are pretty special on a good recording, enjoy. :thumbsup:
 
What music? I'd go with pretty much anythng!

I characterize them as having the fast & airy highs of my Acoustat 1+1s, with the fast & deep bass of my JBL 240Tis. They are reasonably efficient but can take lots of power.

If your rubber surrounds are original, they will probably hold the woofers and passives back a bit, but surprisingly good anyway. Replace those surrounds and EL caps and you'll see what all of the fuss is about with the Great Heils.
Started out with Tull's Thick as a Brick, The Who's Quadrophenia and then some Depeche Mode. Seemed a bit harsh at first but settled down as maybe my ears needed adjusting. I've replaced surround before but not sure if I want to tackle these. If I find someone local I can trust maybe go that route. I've heard the term fast before and now realize what it means. Keeps up the beat with no problem. And yes new caps and moving the heils back on the menu! Very happy with them.
 
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