Paradigm Reference Studio v.2 OR Design Acoustics PS-8a?

[steely]

Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.2 OR Design Acoustics PS-8a?

Wondering if anybody has knowledge about or experience with either of these speakers...

I have a choice of Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.2 or Design Acoustics PS-8a for a second system. They will be powered by a Yamaha RX-V890 receiver (100 wpc RMS) and used for stereo music only. As you would expect, the DA Point Source speakers are considerably older than the Paradigms but they seem to be in good shape. I have all the specs on the Paradigms but have been unable to find the frequency response specs for the Design Acoustics.

Specs for Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.2:

• Design 2-driver, 2-way bass reflex
  
• Crossover 3rd order electro/acoustic at 1.5kHz
  
• High-Frequency Driver 25mm(1") PAL pure-aluminum dome, ferro-fluid damped/cooled,
• die-cast heatsink chassis
  
• Bass/Midrange Driver 165mm(6 1/2") MLP mica-polymer cone, AVS diecast
• heatsink chassis, 38mm voice-coil
  
• Performance
• Low Frequency Extension 38Hz(DIN)
  
• Frequency Response
• On Axis 0 degrees +/-2dB from 54Hz-22kHz
• Off Axis 30 degrees +/-2dB from 54Hz-20kHz
  
• Sensitivity-Room/Anechoic 89dB/86dB
  
• Suitable Amplifier
• Power Range 15-150 watts
  
• Maximum Input Power 100 watts
  
• Impedance Compatible with 8 ohms

If anyone can provide specs for the DA PS-8a speakers, it would be greatly appreciated!

 

[steely]

Hmm...I was really hoping that by now someone would have come up with a useful tidbit or two about either of these speakers. I should have mentioned that whichever I go with, it will likely be paired with a Definitive Technology ProSub 60 subwoofer, so deep bass reproduction shouldn't be the deciding factor.

FWIW, here's all the pertinent info I was able to get from the PS-8a instruction pamphlet:

DESlGN®
ACOUSTICS
An Audio-Technica Company
POINT SOURCE PS-8a PS-10 INSTRUCTIONS

Components of the PS-8a include an 8-inch, long-throw woofer mounted on the bottom of the cabinet and front loaded against the integral base. A 4-inch acoustically treated midwoofer is positioned on the front baffle, as well as a 3/4-inch soft dome tweeter. Crossover frequencies are 190 Hz and 2600 Hz; nominal system impedance is 8 ohms.

POWER HANDLING
An amplifier rated at 15-100 watts RMS per channel is suggested for use with the PS-8a speaker system.

HIGH FREQUENCY ADJUSTMENT
A high frequency control is provided on the front baffle of the PS-8a and PS-10 which varies the level of high frequency to suit room acoustics. In most rooms the best aural balance is achieved with the control in the zero position. Rotating the control toward the -3dB position will decrease the high frequency output. This position may be preferred in acoustically bright or hard rooms. Conversely, in rooms with heavy carpet and curtains, rotating the high frequency control toward the +3dB position will provide the necessary increase in high frequency output to compensate for the absorption of high frequency energy in the acoustically soft environment.

Please...any thoughts? :headscrat Thank you!

 

[Boonaroo]

My vote is for the Paradigms

I have some practical experience with each of these speakers. In my younger days I worked at a stereo shop in AR that sold JBL, Advent, and DA. the PS-8's are a good speaker for general listening, but not the best speaker for critical listening. Regardless of that fact, I did end up buying a pair of PS-10's and the PS_LF 30 sub because I thought the did a decent job, and they looked cool!!!

After about 10 years I went back and had a visit at that shop and ended up buying a set of Paradigm Mini Monitors. That was a special little speaker that introduced me to what I call 'critical' listening. The Reference series is a far better speaker in every way.

Just my $.02.

 

[steely]

Thanks for your input, Boonaroo!

I just want to clarify that the DA model I'm talking about is the PS-8a, not its predecessor the PS-8. My understanding is that the original "8" was a 2-way speaker with only a single down-firing woofer and a front-firing adjustable tweeter whereas the "8a" was an improved 3-way design (like the PS-10) with a down-firing woofer, a front-firing "midwoofer" and a front-firing adjustable tweeter. Different beasts!

PS-8:

PS-8a:

I don't know if I ever heard the original PS-8 but from the photos and the things I've read it would seem that the PS-8a was big step up. (Basing all this on my observations with a heap of conjecture thrown in for good measure! ;-))

 

[sorenmad]

Hi Steely, I have had Paradigm Studio 20 (original version) for about 5 years, but they were only my main speakers for about the first year of that time period. From the specs you gave I think you are looking at the Studio 20 V2.

They do some things really well, but they have some funky colourations that get on my nerves over time.

The treble, while fairly smooth and natural sounding, is tipped up a bit, calls attention to itself at times and can distract from the music, but I understand the V2 has tamed down the treble from the original V1 I have

Also they can sound unnatural in the lower midrange, this frequency sounds recessed and often has a strange colouration where it sounds like it is coming out of a cave. This problem gets more prominent for me the longer I listen.

And another problem is the cabinets. They seem heavy and solid but on music with a lot of midbass the cabs really "thunk" and piss me off. I understand the V2 you are looking at don't have the exaggerated midbass of the version 1 I have, so perhaps they are not as bad in this regard. OTOH, I saw a review of the V3 where the reviewer said he could hear the cabs. But rumor has it that the V2 had the best cabs of any of the early Studios.

Some of the positives of the 20s are that they are great on modern electronic based music, and can be played quite loud without strain.

They are easy to drive, I had a 40wpc yamaha reciever from around the same period as the yamaha you have and it worked suprisingly well with the paradigms. Later I got a NAD 320 bee and it was suprisingly only a bit better than the yamaha (on the paradigms)

hope this helps you somehow, if you have any other specific questions about them let me know.

any chance you can get both pair and keep the winner? If the paradigm lose they should be easy to resell.

 

[Art K.]

Studio 20 all the way. Just a better speaker. I owned the Studio 20v1, v2 and v3.

 

[steely]

Thanks for all the specifics, sorenmad!:thmbsp: I'll address some of them now...

From the specs you gave I think you are looking at the Studio 20 V2.

Absolutely correct. I updated my initial post to reflect that wherever possible.

any chance you can get both pair and keep the winner?

As a matter of fact, I can. Both sets here now and the Paradigms are up and running.

The treble, while fairly smooth and natural sounding, is tipped up a bit, calls attention to itself at times and can distract from the music, but I understand the V2 has tamed down the treble from the original V1 I have

The first thing I noticed with the Paradigms is that unless the treble knob is turned down to at least the neutral position, everything sounds brighter and edgier than it should. With every other pair of speakers I've used with that receiver I've found myself wanting to increase the treble a few dB. So if the v2 really tamed the treble, I would think that the v1 was awful in that regard.

Also they can sound unnatural in the lower midrange, this frequency sounds recessed and often has a strange colouration where it sounds like it is coming out of a cave.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the lower midrange frequencies seem to be coming out of a cave, but they do seem weak.

I understand the V2 you are looking at don't have the exaggerated midbass of the version 1 I have, so perhaps they are not as bad in this regard.

Again, you are correct. They are not at all bad in that regard.

ART K., obviously you loved that speaker since you used (and, I assume, bought) three versions of them. So far, though, I'm not really feeling the love!

 

[steely]

Paradigms, final answer!

In the end, it was a relatively easy decision. I A/B'd the two speakers directly and the Paradigms were the clear winner, literally and figuratively. Despite their minor annoyances and coloration quirks, they had better depth, clarity and frequency extension than the Design Acoustics. The PS-8a's had a relatively dimensionless "small box" kind of sound, were slightly less efficient and were noticeably muddier than the Studio 20's. Maybe they would benefit from new caps or something...but that's a bit out of my realm.

I've probably been spoiled by the B&W's in my main audio system. I've had them for a long time and never seem to grow tired of them. The Paradigm and DA bookshelf speakers I auditioned are decent enough, but neither really comes close to the quality of the B&Ws I'm used to hearing.

 

[Art K.]

ART K., obviously you loved that speaker since you used (and, I assume, bought) three versions of them. So far, though, I'm not really feeling the love!

Are you feeling it now?

The v3's were the best iteration of the Studio 20 from the perspective of a balanced sound but in a system of like parts the v2 sings very nicely.

 

[steely]

Are you feeling it now?

Let's just say I've come to appreciate these speakers for what they are! ;-)

The v3's were the best iteration of the Studio 20 from the perspective of a balanced sound

Looks like they made a lot of positive changes including a larger woofer, an improved tweeter and a front-facing port. There's a nice comparison here: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/paradigm_studio_20v3.htm