PC and bookshelf speakers. Minimum other components necessary?

[Sajia]

I have some really basic beginner questions.

For all of my adult life I've been listening to music by plugging some computer speakers into my laptop.
Now I'm ready to get a little more serious about sound quality. I live in an apartment, so a) I don't have a lot of extra space and b) it'll bother the neighbors if I crank up the volume really high. Basically, I want the simplest setup where I can hear a difference between 128MB MP3 files and hi-res audio files.

Originally I was just looking for a decent set of bookshelf speakers. But in reading speaker reviews I quickly learned that people usually have other components as well. Unfortunately all the beginner's guides I've found focus on headphones, so it's hard to tell what I need for speakers. Is the minimum a DAC and an amp? Just one? Neither? If I use Bluetooth instead of a physical cable, are those components still relevant? I'd like to have a setup that doesn't depend on a sound card--I have one Windows laptop, one Linux desktop, and an HD-capable Sony MP3 player, and I'd like the speakers to work with all of them.

I'd be very grateful for any advice. Whether it's based on your experience, what everybody knows, or if there's some page or post that explains exactly this question (not another one about headphones!). Thanks!

 

[orsen]

dont bother with bluetooth
get a small used [ or big ] amp
rca from you all your sources to the rca in on the amp
connect your bookshelf speakers
crank it up
then follow the rabbitt hole of usb dacs

 

[fernarias]

I have my pc connected to a Kenwood KA-701 (that's been refurbished) and then to some Klipsch Forte. I use a high end sound card, HT Omega Claro Halo, with rca connectors. I listen to music (mp3s, flac, wav), watch/listen to youtube and watch downloaded content. Music quality is very good but mostly listen to it as background music (I have a main system for active listening that has both a record player and cd player). I also use the Kenwood with high end head phones for late night time listening. So that's my recommendation, get a good sound card or dac and connect it to a good amp and some good speakers. You'll be surprised at how good it can sound (started out with a sound blaster and powered speakers in 1990)

 

[wmgwizard]

I have a Schiit dac between my HP laptop and a Carver M200t(120wpc $150) powering a pair of ADS L780 II.

You could simply use a 3.5mm to RCA Jack cable and send the sound from your PC to any amp, receiver or powered speakers. You do not NEED a DAC or other hardware but they can make an improvement, but at what cost is strictly up to you.

Bluetooth is convenient and much better than it used to be but still has a way to go before it's considered true "High Fidelity".

Today's powered speakers are an excellent way to add some very good sound to a PC or iPad or phone for a relatively modest investment. You could do very well with $200 - $400. JBL, KRK, Klipsch and others make powered speakers that are quite impressive considering the simplicity, convenience and space savings of having the amp and speaker in one package.

 

[xero-D-hero]

It would really help to know what sorta budget there would be for this.

That said I'd probably suggest something like this:
1. Schiit Modi 3 DAC.
2. Schiit Jotunheim preamp.
3. JBL LSR-305 active speakers.

The Modi3 can handle the various digital inputs (coax/optical/USB),and the Jotunheim has a both an XLR and a RCA input.
Plus the Jotunheim has the option of using one of a couple of other "add-on" cards as well.
And the Jotunheim has XLR outs that most powered monitors use as SOP.

With careful shopping a rig like that should be do-able for < $1k.
And SQ should be very good.

FWIW

*** edit wmgwizzard beat me to the draw while I was busy typing this,LOL ***

Bret P.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Some of my personal favorites. Highly recommend cloth dome for the tweeter.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Um...no.

 

[Sajia]

Thanks for the answers! That's really helpful for clearing out some of the noise.
Yeah, that was the price range I was thinking of. I figure the speakers should be the most expensive component and was budgeting max $500 for them, and then expecting to pay less for each of the other components.

For speakers, I'm basically at the "graduated from Bose" stage. I know I can get better sound for the money with something else, but there are so many choices that it's really info overload. In this price range it looks like the main choices are Klipsch, Q Acoustics, Polk, Onkyo, JBL, Infinity. Anything I should focus on or eliminate?

 

[Sajia]

It would really help to know what sorta budget there would be for this.

That said I'd probably suggest something like this:
1. Schiit Modi 3 DAC.
2. Schiit Jotunheim preamp.
3. JBL LSR-305 active speakers.

The Modi3 can handle the various digital inputs (coax/optical/USB),and the Jotunheim has a both an XLR and a RCA input.
Plus the Jotunheim has the option of using one of a couple of other "add-on" cards as well.
And the Jotunheim has XLR outs that most powered monitors use as SOP.

With careful shopping a rig like that should be do-able for < $1k.
And SQ should be very good.

FWIW

*** edit wmgwizzard beat me to the draw while I was busy typing this,LOL ***

Bret P.

What's the benefit of a preamp? I was trying to figure that out, and most of the discussion about the pluses of preamps is talking about recording, not playback. It is because the speakers already function like a basic amp and just need a bit of extra boost?

 

[rothwellaudio]

It is because the speakers already function like a basic amp and just need a bit of extra boost?

NO!!!
Passive loudspeakers - the "old fashioned" type, though they aren't really old fashioned - need some kind of power amp to get them to do anything. The options are a preamp and a power amp, or an "integrated" amp where the preamp and power amp are integrated into the same case.
Active speakers have power amps built-in, so they only require an external preamp. Active speakers are quite common for computer setups but at the cheap end of the market are just that - cheap and not particularly good. Going further up-market there are a lot of active speakers aimed at the recording studio market. They range from small and affordable for home studios to huge and expensive for big pro studios. They still need some kind of preamp, though the studio's mixing desk will usually fulfill that requirement.
Of course, active speakers can be used for hi-fi too, but most audiophiles seem to prefer passive speakers and a pre/power amp combo or an integrated amp.

 

[wmgwizard]

Active speakers have power amps built-in, so they only require an external preamp

You DO NOT NEED an external preamp with active speakers but it could be helpful if you are considering using multiple input sources.

A pre-amp is the "control center" of your audio system. It typically provides volume, bass, treble, balance and source selection controls. You can not drive conventional/passive/"old dashioned" speakers with a pre-amp.

An amplifier is just a device to provide gain or amplify the signal fed into it wherever that signal may come from. You can supply an amp with signal from the headphone output of your laptop/tablet or phone.

An integrated amplifier combines a pre-amp and amplifier in a single chassis thereby minimizing the amount of space required and number of components to connect and plug into the wall. A receiver is an integrated amplifier with a tuner to pick up AM/FM radio broadcasts.

Active/powered speakers have come a long way from the tinny sounding plastic box PC speakers that started the trend. You mentioned simplicity and space as important requirements active speakers accomplish those goals easily. Regarding sound quality, you get what you pay for, $500 will get you a nice set of speakers, $1000 speakers will be very impressive.

For some ideas check out Crutchfield.com. they have a good selection and great information. I am not associated or affiliated with Crutchfield beyond being a very satisfied customer for over 25 years. They have a very good return policy so you can minimize the anxiety of "what if I don't like them".

 

[rothwellaudio]

Active speakers have power amps built-in, so they only require an external preamp.

You DO NOT NEED an external preamp with active speakers but it could be helpful if you are considering using multiple input sources.

Whilst it's true that most active speakers have a volume control on the back, they're not really very practical to use, so the user needs some way of controlling the volume and probably some way of selecting from multiple sources - hence some kind of "preamp" is required. What form that preamp takes depends on what the user wants. It could be a conventional hi-fi preamp, a computer audio interface, a mixing desk... anything, really. But something is required.

An amplifier is just a device to provide gain or amplify the signal fed into it wherever that signal may come from.

No, voltage gain alone isn't sufficient. To drive passive loudspeakers you need a power amp, ie an amplifier that will will drive low impedance (4/8 ohm) loads. Preamps will give you gain, but they won't drive passive loudspeakers.

 

[Sajia]

What I think I'm hearing is:
1. Most audiophiles think passive speakers + power amp will get better sound than active speakers at the same price point as the two components combined.
2. Some active speakers are worth the money, but they'll benefit from a preamp.
3. Part of the advantage of a preamp (maybe 60%?) is providing more convenient controls for volume etc., rather than just sound quality.
Is this about right?

 

[rothwellaudio]

2. Some active speakers are worth the money, but they'll benefit from a preamp.
3. Part of the advantage of a preamp (maybe 60%?) is providing more convenient controls for volume etc., rather than just sound quality.
Is this about right?

A preamp is about functionality rather than sound quality. For example, in a studio the mixer would function as the preamp - you wouldn't add an extra preamp to give an extra 40% more sound quality.
You could just take an analogue output from a computer straight to a pair of active speakers and use the computer's volume control to set the playback level. In that case the computer itself would function as a preamp (of sorts).
In your case I would recommend you buy a pair of speakers (passive) and an integrated amp. Feed the various sources into the amp and away you go - nothing more to worry about.

 

[wmgwizard]

1) You will typically spend more for a passive(pre-amp/amp/speakers) setup than you will for an active/powered system. You will also take up more space, require cabling to connect everything and more outlets to plug everything in. Do not confuse the powered speakers intended for PC use with the High Fidelity options available from JBL, Klipsch, AudioEngine, KRK, KEF and others.

2/3) A pre-amp COULD be helpful if you are using multiple sources connected to the same amplifier and speakers. As stated earlier it will provide you with Volume/Balance/Bass/Treble and Source selection controls but it is not an absolute requirement. While I agree the volume control on most active speakers may not always be conveniently located, you can control the volume via the source(PC/iPad/phone). Additionally many active speaker come with some sort of remote and some can accept multiple input sources.

 

[Sajia]

Thanks! Every word of this is really eye-opening.

Now the obvious question: Is there anyone on this thread who personally thinks passive speaker + amp is the better way to go?
Here I'm hearing more enthusiasm for the active speaker option, at least for an entry level audiophile.
I mainly want all the instruments in a jazz quartet from bass to cymbals to come out clearly and vividly at any volume.

 

[rothwellaudio]

Now the obvious question: Is there anyone on this thread who personally thinks passive speaker + amp is the better way to go? Here I'm hearing more enthusiasm for the active speaker option, at least for an entry level audiophile.

To some extent it depends on your budget. If you don't want to spend a lot of money and are happy to buy used equipment there are lots of pairs of passive speakers and amps available for not a lot of money at all. Passive speakers and amps have been around for decades and the used market is flooded with them.
Serious audiophiles still tend to use passive speakers, maybe because of the flexibility, maybe because of habit or convention, or maybe because they think it's the better way to go

 

[Sajia]

Unfortunately I'm in Hong Kong. No Crutchfields, and the most expensive real estate in the world means practically no one has space to keep surplus electronics around. My best options are Amazon and the few companies like Schiit willing to ship directly to overseas customers.

 

[xero-D-hero]

Ok.first thing first,yes the preamp recommendation was mainly a convience based suggestion.
Centralized volume control being the main one.
And yes input selection would be another.

FWIW using the source (laptop/PC/phone) volume control is a bad idea as doing so in the digital relm can affect audio resolution.
IOW you effectively "chop off" bits as you lower the volume control,so the lower the volume,the more resolution you lose.
So typically one wants to keep the PC/laptop/phone volume level @ or close to max (90-100) for best sound quality.

Now the Jotunheim I recommended does'nt have bass/treble/balance controls but with that rig you wont really need them.
I say that as the digital player typically has it's own EQ,and you can adjust any balance related issues with the volume controls on the monitors.

Now the active vs. passive thing...
I dont have a favorite there,both can serve one's needs,but it's more of a "case by case" sorta situation.
My PC based headphone/nearfield rig is currently a passive set-up,but in the planning stages active was under strong consideration as well.
As stated it usually boils down to costs,and to a lesser degree the given availability of gear one has.
Here in the states,used gear is plentiful,and if you're patient and shop wisely very affordable.
Thing is I'd never assume that were the case for everyone.
So the comment about being an apartment dweller kinda suggested to me a "compact" rig would be ideal here.

I hope this makes my suggestions a bit clearer,if not feel free to ask any questions you may have and,we'll do our best to answer them.

HTH

Bret P.

 

[fernarias]

Unfortunately I'm in Hong Kong. No Crutchfields, and the most expensive real estate in the world means practically no one has space to keep surplus electronics around. My best options are Amazon and the few companies like Schiit willing to ship directly to overseas customers.

Hong Kong has a great hi-fi scene. You should join a hi-fi club and get some members to show you the best places to shop (being Hong Kong there are tons of little, like really little, shops that sell amps, speakers, etc. sourced from Japan). You should not have a problem putting a good system together at any price point.
Apliu Street