Peavey Black widows not suspended correctly.

[Planetzed]

Hiya,
I recently bought a used pair of 4ohm 15" black widow drivers as spares for my Peavey hisys5xt cabs.
On opening them, apart from a strong solvent smell, on examining them one is almost at the end of its excursion towards the magnet and the other almost all the way out (could they have been packed badly face to face?) as though the spider is sprained or something.
I'm not sure if the basket has been reconed as all my other units (dating from the 80s to 2000s and definately genuine) have a different colour /texture of cone and the dust cap on the originals are material where as these are plastic. The cone edge doesn't look right but that could be because the the thick foam that usually sits around the edge is badly damaged. Enyone who knows these will know that the magnet is just bolted on for field replacement so happily I can get to the back of the spider should I need to but I hope not to have to as the cones are moving freely and the voice coil isn't catching the magnet assembly. I don't want to apply a signal at this point and risk damaging the voice coil as 4ohm 15s are like hens teeth..
Could any of you kind folks proffer some advice as I've always used genuine peavey baskets and never had a problem but only 8ohm are now available and I'm only one mishap away from having to buy a set of new cabs (4) an I relly like the clean and clear sound of those old 3 way cabs...
If anyone in the UK/Europe happens to have any spare 4ohm baskets please give me a shout too.
Many thanks in advance
Jay

 

[Planetzed]

 

[Planetzed]

I hope that helps, I had to crop and resize far more than I would of preferred, the camera was at the same hight for both speakers, I think you can see the difference in the angle of the spider on the 2 different speakers, if more are needed please tell me what shot you would like, thankyou.
I just contacted the seller and they weren't happy as its been a while since they arrived and they say they were fully tested but with the couple of millimeters travel remaining on the lower one I wouldn't like to put 10w into it...

It is odd that they are both total opposites could it be they have been under tention from each other for about 30 days has caused the spider to get stuck sort of? They seemed nicely packed so didn't want to unpack then and leave them about while waiting for the cabs to arrive.

 

[GordonW]

Have you played these? And/or, have you taken off the magnets yet?

I will say- that one thing that plagues the older Black Widow speakers, is that the foam filter inside the magnet, will disintegrate. It's basically the same type of foam, that foam surrounds are made of, BTW. When this happens- this can get into the magnet gap, and jam up the motion of the voice coil. This could definitely make them suspension sit at odd rest positions.

I pretty much recommend anyone, putting a pair of older Black Widows back into use, to just unbolt the magnet, lift it off, and look for the condition of that foam filter. I actually, usually just rip out the foam filter, if it's still intact- to make sure it can never disintegrate and gum up the works. The wire mesh will still protect from significant debris getting into the magnet gap, unless you're in an atrociously dirty environment.

If the filter has disintegrated and there's gunk in the gap, and/or on the voice coil former- that will need to be cleaned off. Acetone works fine for this.

EDIT: In fact, coincidentally enough, here's a thread that I just saw for the first time here, where someone has done exactly the cleaning procedure I describe:

Funked up Peavey Black Widow - fixed !

Hey folks, just thought I’d share some pictures of what happens to older Peavey Black Widow woofers and how the stuff is cleaned up. This one’s out of my left speaker which had been sounding a little weak on the bass, then a little distorted the past week or so. The foam that Peavey used to keep...

audiokarma.org

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Planetzed]

Hi Gordon, thankyou for your reply, no I havnt removed the magnet for a couple of reasons, first i may be able to return them and secondly having run BWs for 30 years and had that problem on a few occasions I've never had this result, it's always had the symptom of the coil catching the magnet sound or limited excersion inward causing the same sound as over driving them. They've also usually been a little stiff where as these arn't (I've run hysys5xt's since the 90s the square and wedge shaped ones and currently have 2pairs) I also have rbn118's (3 pairs).

I havnt sent a signal to them yet as they are so obviously wrong both have only a few mm movement before eather gets to it's max but will do in the morning (it's almost 2am here) and will fish out a hifi amp and give them a low power test.
Many thanks
Jay

 

[GordonW]

Yeah, it's definitely not normal, for them to have limited travel in one direction. That's a sure sign that the spider and surround have taken a significant off-center set. That will really limit the low frequency output, before the driver starts to distort.

You may be able to get in there with a heat gun and soften the spider and surround, to make it take a more centered set- but, I'd be inclined to punt, on those- and find others that aren't compromised like that. That is, unless you want to replace the spiders, surrounds and dust caps- that would be the only sure-fire way to fix that, short of totally reconing the drivers.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Planetzed]

I don't realy want to do anything to them, they already stand me at £220ukp for the pair, I usually stick with genuine drivers especially as I run 4 cabs together in the 4 corners I've already had desasterous results from non genuine HF diafragms. The listing said they were genuine and the seller is not happy I may want to return them (as it said, used, no returns but fully tested. The surround and spider seem to be seated properly, around the edge, it looks like it may be the spider itself but untill I pop the magnet I can't rember if it's just the folded material type or has a wire support also which may explain it. I do have some new baskets but don't want to unseal them just to have a look.
Thankyou for your comrihe sive suggestions I will ha e a dig in when I am fresh.

Oh and I don't think the pressure / hit if indeed that is what has happened was off center as the cone does seem to be well centered, both if you apply the four fingered salute from above or 8 fingers from below it's perfectly silent, no rubbing.

It wouldn't be worth lifting the cone I. To position with blocks or applying a small amount of weight from above to try level them out do you think?
Many thanks
Jay

 

[GordonW]

There shouldn't be any wire supports in a Black Widow spider. It's just a conventional corrugated spider.

It may be possible to get a limited amount of 're-centering' using weights as described- but, IME, it usually takes some careful application of heat in addition to the weight, to get it to stick. Otherwise, it probably will just return to a partially sagged condition, once the weights are removed.

When I say "careful application" of heat- I very much want to emphasize the CAREFUL part. It's frustratingly easy to start to deform and distort a spider with too much heat. I've even seen the pleats "go flat" (as in it's no longer pleated in a small area!) under excessive heat. Once that happens, then spider replacement is mandatory.

I'm guessing, that the speakers were left face-to-face in storage- in an area that got quite hot (like an attic or boiler room or what not). That heat- especially damp heat- could cause the sag due to gravity, to be as extreme, and to "take a set" like it's done. That would also explain why one is inward, and the other outward. The proverbial hair-of-the-dog (using heat to counter the effects of heat) may be what's needed...

Regards,
Gordon

 

[Planetzed]

Hi,
Thankyou Gordon, I've carefully wedged one and weighted the other, after 12 hrs there was a slight improvement so have left it like that for now.. As luck would have it the spanners I need are not at home so will go grab them tomorrow and remove the magnets and check for any foul ups with the foam or anything it will also allow a far more even application of heat from below.
Now heat, have you any idea of a rough temperature range? I should be able to mangle together a fairly constant temperature air flow with a pte heating element (I've a few kicking around after some experiments with them 200,500, 1kw), fan and a variac and/or a variable speed fan.

Re storage, they were posted to me on 1st July and I got them on the 6th, I opened the box but left them in the box in my kitchen, no heating, no cooking but the box may of had a very little sun being the UK. But on the whole the kitchen is usually a good deal cooler than outside.
Thankyou
Jay

 

[A400]

I had a similar issue with a 15" Cerwin-Vega subwoofer and after ages of weighting etc eventually used a hair dryer to heat the spider and that quickly corrected the alignment. I gradually added heat for longer until I got the desired reset, but it seemed like the it would take a heavy hand to do damage with that particular hair dryer and woofer. Once cooled it stayed where it should.

 

[GordonW]

I had a similar issue with a 15" Cerwin-Vega subwoofer and after ages of weighting etc eventually used a hair dryer to heat the spider and that quickly corrected the alignment. I gradually added heat for longer until I got the desired reset, but it seemed like the it would take a heavy hand to do damage with that particular hair dryer and woofer. Once cooled it stayed where it should.

A hair dryer will be slower, but likely much safer, than a hardware-grade heat gun.

The damage I've seen, has usually involved a heat gun. Just gets too hot, very quickly. Even on the "low" heat setting.

Regards,
Gordon.