• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Phenolic Tweeters- Rediscovered!

dc270

dc270

Now Off the Reservation
I just finished rebuilding/ refinishing a set of DLK 1's- I am amazed at the Phenolic cone tweeter! It sounds very crisp, good dispersion and a great match to an 8" mid bass driver. Just because it a cone tweeter do not discount it- these (larger magnet) Phenolics sound very good!
DC
 
Register to hide this ad
You already know how I feel about cone tweets, dc.

And to the rest a' ya'..... Ah' luvs 'em. :D

First post on updated site software. :thmbsp:

Hey, what gives? ... Now it looks just like the Hoffman forum I spent all weekend on while waiting for the "new & improvised" Audiokarma... No more infinite editing... Where's my sig pic? And what happened to the smiley box that opens up? ... I'm goin' on memory alone here. :eek:

Sorry about that, you guys... Just lettin' off steam... I'll get it figure'd out...

Eeeeastbound & dowwwwn....
 
Last edited:
Gang-Twanger said:
You already know how I feel about cone tweets, dc.

And to the rest a' ya'..... Ah' luvs 'em. :D

First post on updated site software. :thmbsp:

Hey, what gives? ... Now it looks just like the Hoffman forum I spent all weekend on while waiting for the "new & improvised" Audiokarma... No more infinite editing... Where's my sig pic? And what happened to the smiley box that opens up? ... I'm goin' on memory alone here. :eek:

Sorry about that, you guys... Just lettin' off steam... I'll get it figure'd out...

Eeeeastbound & dowwwwn....
Click to expand...

Do you prefer cone over dome tweeters?
 
Having discovered Morel tweeter a while back- I am mostly in the dome camp, but every now and then I do get reminded ow good a cone "can" sound like the Phenolics do! When I do get turned around I want to remind the folks out there to not discount cone products- "it's all good!"
DC
 
I have used cone tweeters over the years in some DIY builds but for high spl I prefer domes.
 
In the 70's, the CTS phenolic ring tweeter was almost the industry standard for mid-priced systems. I see you can still get clones of this design.
 
JimPA said:
I have used cone tweeters over the years in some DIY builds but for high spl I prefer domes.
Click to expand...

That's actually part of it. A really-good cone-tweeter can usually deliver great sound at higher levels without taking your head off, and yet, they don't need much volume to shine. It's a real-world sweet spot, you know? That's one of the things I love about the cone tweets in my W90's. Today's high-quality soft-dome-type tweeters have awesome dispersion and excellent extension. Still, there's something soft and airy about the best cone-tweeters from the '60's and early '70's that I really-like. The Jensen P35-VAH, when used in pairs, can sound VERY-smooth and airy, and Bozak's aluminum cone-tweets are legendary.

For older music, which makes up a large majority of my collection, a good cone-tweeter is just the thing. My modern Denton reissues have really-nice textile domes, and while they have a really, really-nice sound, it just isn't the same. Doesn't sound anywhere near as "at home" as the older Wharfedales do with their Super 3's. For something like CSNY's "Deja Vu" or something like that, forget about it. Give me my Super 3's (That album is heaven through a pair of W90's). They have a more-natural sound to me than the modern domes I've heard, though I do like certain ones an awful lot.

You heard the Super 3's, dc270, so you understand what I'm talking about. Those phenolic jobbers have a similar kind of homey familiarity with older music. That's one of the qualities I tend to look for when I'm speaker-shopping. With older music taking up so much space in my collection, I kind of have to. There are actually quite a few very-large, very-awesome TOTL speakers out there with plain old cone-tweeters. The biggest models often have multiple cone-tweeters, which can really be something, just like the Super 3 pairs in each of my W90's and the aluminum cone-tweets (8 of them in a linear array) in the Bozak Concert Grand and Symphony models. The W90 has a Super 3 cone at the outer-left and outer-right of the cab, with a pair of 5.25" cone midwoofers in the middle, and this creates a very-wide, spacious soundstage that really-fills a room. Plus, with one at each end of the cabinet, you don't have to worry about mirror-imaging because the model is already mirror-imaged by design.

Which of the Marantz Imperial models is generally-considered the best? I was never sure if the biggest, most-expensive model was the best one, and I always thought those Imperial models looked great.
 
Last edited:
I had a low opinion of cones in the late 70s/early 80s, due to bad experiences with the low-priced speakers of the day. However, having recently (well, 12 years ago) discovered what Henry Kloss did with the many classic KLH models, I no longer write them off. Ribbon or planar is still my preference, though.
 
Great to hear. Debating swapping in Parts Express phenolics for the Realistic domes currently in my AR-4x's, debating whether it's worth the $50, this is encouraging.
 
Had DLK 1 1/2's for years. The phenolic tweeter is ok.
I put in a set of P.E. (4 ohm) vifa domes, and the speaker is much better IMHO.
Much needed air and detail-crisp, but not harsh.
Plus they are $10 cheaper ea.
You have to notch the openings for the terminals.
Note-only a few 1 1/2's used 8 ohm tweeters-the 2 and 3's did.
Also added a dome (Goldwood 8 ohm) to my 2's-awesome speakers now.
You can adjust the level with the rear l-pad.
The O.E. damping is usually crumbled by now.
I added roughly 1 1/2 lbs of poly stuffing to each-really cleans up and deepens the bass.
Don't clump it-pull it apart and evenly distribute it.
Good speakers in their time. You can really make them sing with a few updates and take advantage of modern tweeters. By the way DLK made a hot rodded 1 1/2 with a Peerless plate dome tweeter (@ Polk).
Why settle for the stock sound when a few update clearly make them sound better?
 
Last edited:
My Kenwood LS-408B's have the Becker versions of those tweeters in them,IMO these Kenwood speakers sound very nice.

JM2¢

Bret P.
 
the peerless tweets of the early 70's caught my ear when i heard the ESS Translinear. the ad at the time said "closest likeness to electrostatics yet achieved with dynamic drivers" and I tended to agree (the mid was also a peerless paper cone unit).

later i heard the famous phenolic ring tweeter and built a speaker or two with them. i liked the sound a lot back then but felt the peerless was better (especially in multiples).

back in those days ALL the tweeters were prone to burnout including domes and stats.

that's why the Heil AMT was such a breakthrough because it could handle more power (though it still could burnout).

today i am liking the silk domes a lot..
 
I agree on the Big Great Heil-the stable imaging and air cant be found with any other driver, they can handle power-but keep them fused.
Use a small midwoofer transition driver between them and a large woofer and you set.
As mentioned, the DLK had great woofers and mids-they saved the Peerless and Phillips tweets for the more expensive models-but no reason to keep them stock.
You would be amazed how good the sound recapped, redampned and upgraded tweets-when given some clean power. All the mods are fairly inexpensive and the price you can get them in these parts makes them a great buy vs new-IF your willing to upgrade them.
Stock-no thanks unless the use non cone tweets.
Another advantage is the domes don't beam as much as the cones.
The 1 1/2 used a simple 1st order-6db@ 4800hz-so you have a few dome options.
I have recapped a bunch of 1 1/2's -2's and 3's, and honestly you can't hear the difference between poly and electrolytic-the tweeters for sure.
Another issue to watch for is the l-pads-usually on the 2 and 3's. These are 8 ohm-easy to find. The 1 1/2's use 4 ohm-not so easy-so you might try Deoxit first.
Luckily they usually are fine on the 1 1/2's for some reason-vs the 2's and 3's.
With the 2 and 3's I usually just replace the l-pad-it make it easier to recap and well-not a lot of room on the cups.
Again-I feel these speakers still hold up very well today when upgraded etc. Sure not AMT3's, but they have a smooth, detailed and dynamic full range sound that works great with any amp/setup.
 
Last edited:
A while back, a friend borrowed me a set of DLK 1.5s, w/phenolics. I had them in my garage using and old Rotel receiver. Next to the DLK were some Infinity rsb w/emits, JBL l46 w/domes, and some ADS 400's. Doing side by side comparison the domes of the ads were the sweetest of them all, the jbl second, with the emits and phenolic being very close. I returned the speakers with the idea that I already have far too many speakers. And this is just my garage. However I was pleasantly surprised by those DLK speakers, the idea of replacing the tweeter really didn't seem necessary, but sounds enticing.
 
The CTS Phenolic Ring Tweets where originally made in my neck of the woods as CTS is based out of Elkhart, Indiana and that's where they made their Legendary Phenolic Ring Tweets. :thumbsup:
 
yTweeter technology has come along way (particularly the power handling of domes) -the AMT's were way ahead of their time.
The Peerless plate tweeter was very good IMHO-Midwest has a reproduction. Like the CTS, they were somewhat fragile, especially with lower power/clipping receivers etc they were generally paired with back in the day (Magnum 100/etc-although as I recall they were the cheaper versions)
At $250 for the system-they had to be Omegas-as the 1 1/2's were at least $200 ea retail-but you can always upgrade......
Most of the DLK's I have ran across used the Mexican version.
The reproduction (4 and 8 ohm) have a slightly higher db output in practice.
Most of these speakers sound ok at best in their stock 40 year old condition.
New caps-as well as damping-the stock stuff is worthless in it's age.
The green basket long throw rubber surround woofers in the 1 1/2's were IMHO were their best woofers and hold up well to abuse. They just need the proper damping and the bass cleans and deepens right up ( DLK never added enough damping even when new as the boxes are slightly too small for the( 2) 8" woofers specs).
The 2's often used a cloth surround woofer-watch for the VC rubbing. It can be fixed easily if it hasn't gone too far. They could not take the abuse the 8" green baskets could.
The 2's also benefit form replacing the stock stuffing with a piece of 2" acoustic foam-again make a big difference.
As well as the Tweets.
Always wanted to try a small Heil with a set of the 1 1/2's......
Spent a lot of time @ Schaack back in the day-loved the H/K stuff. SoundWorld too (now Besy Buy) but Schaack was more fun-as well as the sales men.
Different world now for sure-even with puffy jackets back in style! This cat sticks with is Carhartt....been their done it....Can't say I miss the polyester paints and satin shirts with like 3 buttons...:wtf: Still dig Kojak though....ah except for his signing...
ADS were decent back in the day as well-the dome tweets set them apart, muck like Polk.
Most manufactures figured out decent enough clean bass/midbass- by the 70's- the mids and highs is what set most really good of the day speakers apart from the average...
Not to mention most midrange electronics (magnum 100 etc) didn't have the best bass drive nor damping and failed to really control the woofers to give you really clean bass-even if the drivers were capable. H/K the exception among others.
Upgrade thoughtfully, drive them with some good power and get some surprising results--AMT3's included as well!
 
Last edited:
I've never felt the tweeters in my imp. 6's were lacking. Recapped with a 6.8lytic+.22 poly bypass in both sets. Very satisfying:thumbsup:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom