Philips GA 212 Stylus / Cartridge

[Aaron J.]

I'm attempting to research a new stylus for my turntable and keep coming across specs & terms that send me down more rabbit holes; suspension, Shibata, diamond size, etc. I read that an old cartridge can have bad suspension? My father bought the turntable new before I was born and replaced the cartridge & stylus a few years after that....still before I was born. Needless to say they're a few years old seeing as I just turned 40. When I play vinyl it just sounds kind of flat & not impressive at all. I feel like streaming music from my phone through an Audioengine B1 shouldn't sound WAY better, but I could be wrong. Should I replace just the stylus, or perhaps both stylus and cartridge? Any good articles you can think of giving me a cartridge education about types, anatomy, etc? Here's my setup:

Cartridge = Audio Technica AT14S
Amp = reconditioned Marantz 2245
Turntable = Philips GA 212
Speakers = Monitor Audio Silvers

 

[spicer]

I'm attempting to research a new stylus for my turntable and keep coming across specs & terms that send me down more rabbit holes; suspension, Shibata, diamond size, etc. I read that an old cartridge can have bad suspension? My father bought the turntable new before I was born and replaced the cartridge & stylus a few years after that....still before I was born. Needless to say they're a few years old seeing as I just turned 40. When I play vinyl it just sounds kind of flat & not impressive at all. I feel like streaming music from my phone through an Audioengine B1 shouldn't sound WAY better, but I could be wrong. Should I replace just the stylus, or perhaps both stylus and cartridge? Any good articles you can think of giving me a cartridge education about types, anatomy, etc? Here's my setup:

Cartridge = Audio Technica AT14S
Amp = reconditioned Marantz 2245
Turntable = Philips GA 212
Speakers = Monitor Audio Silvers

I bought a 212 new, still have it but been in closet for quite a while. With that being said, I had several cartridges on it over the years including an AT14S which at the time was quite expensive, had the then new Shabata stylus for the new CD-4 Quadra discs. From the beginning I did not like the sound of it, sounded flat and not impressive at all just like you described, in fact the whole series of that line at the time from the 12S to the very expensive 15S had the same sound, to me. I replaced it with a Shure M91ED which sounded so much better at far less cost. I still have the hardly used AT14S, before putting it away I tried it on a few other tables and had the same opinion of it. I'm not offering a cartridge suggestion just my experience with that cartridge, table aside. The speakers I had at the time were stacked OLA, original large Advents, driven by a Kenwood KR 9400. I'm not dissing Audio Technica, just giving my experience with that cartridge. I've heard many very affordable AT cartridges over the years that sounded quite good.

 

[jmchrislip]

I had a 212 in the 70's. Used a Micro Acoustics 2002e, Ortofon VMS20E and Stanton 681EEE. Great table!!

 

[johnjhazel]

Buy a used 'Classic' cartridge until you find a model that you like. A used Pickering XV-15 is a less expensive alternative to the very popular Stanton 681. Shure M91 and M95 are well regarded. There will be a million suggestions. BTW, cartridge suspensions do not age. The suspension is in the stylus assembly in a MI or MM cartridge.

 

[62vauxhall]

I've had a box of cartridge bodies forever and a few years ago, started ordering replacement styli. Some of those bodies have been sitting idle for 40 years.

The Empire's, Stanton's, Shure's, Pickering's, ADC's, Ortofon's and even an aged B&O got new styli but not the Philips which is a 400. I considered it an oddball and was not particularly motivated to hear it. Nothing I read about it or was told about it seemed overly enthusiastic so I did not bother looking for a replacement. Some casual investigation made it look to be uncommon so not worth much effort to obtain.

There are, as was mentioned, other very good cartridges, significantly more common and therefore easier to buy new needles for.

 

[Aaron J.]

Buy a used 'Classic' cartridge until you find a model that you like. A used Pickering XV-15 is a less expensive alternative to the very popular Stanton 681. Shure M91 and M95 are well regarded. There will be a million suggestions. BTW, cartridge suspensions do not age. The suspension is in the stylus assembly in a MI or MM cartridge.

This is more ignorance once again, but what is an MI / MM cartridge? I really need some schooling on the anatomy of cartridges.

 

[Aaron J.]

There are, as was mentioned, other very good cartridges, significantly more common and therefore easier to buy new needles for.

Is there a specific style I need to research that will attach to the arm of this particular turntable? It's funny, I've completely rebuilt my amp, but the turntable is an enigma to me at this point. HAHAHA

 

[62vauxhall]

Is there a specific style I need to research that will attach to the arm of this particular turntable? It's funny, I've completely rebuilt my amp, but the turntable is an enigma to me at this point. HAHAHA

The only cartridges that won’t fit are those that plug into a tonearm. Most often referred to as P-mount.

The bulk of what you are likely to encounter will be the so called Standard Mount using two small small machine screws (and nuts in most cases) to bolt them in place.

One parameter that could determine proper fit is overall cartridge height. For instance, I’ve found Grado cartridges too tall for some applications.

MM or MI - no difference from an amplifier compatibility stand point. MC has, generally speaking, different requirements.

 

[johnjhazel]

This is more ignorance once again, but what is an MI / MM cartridge? I really need some schooling on the anatomy of cartridges.

Apologies. MM is Moving Magnet. MI is Moving Iron. Shures were MM. Pickering and Stanton kept switching back and forth between MM and MI. LOL. I think Grado's are MI. The cartridge can be MI or MM. The needle can be MI or MM. You can use a MM needle in a MI cartridge. But not a MI needle in a MM cartridge. It will sink in after a while. I have 60+ years of this stuff.

 

[Aaron J.]

The only cartridges that won’t fit are those that plug into a tonearm. Most often referred to as P-mount.

The bulk of what you are likely to encounter will be the so called Standard Mount using two small small machine screws (and nuts in most cases) to bolt them in place.

One parameter that could determine proper fit is overall cartridge height. For instance, I’ve found Grado cartridges too tall for some applications.

MM or MI - no difference from an amplifier compatibility stand point. MC has, generally speaking, different requirements.

Apologies. MM is Moving Magnet. MI is Moving Iron. Shures were MM. Pickering and Stanton kept switching back and forth between MM and MI. LOL. I think Grado's are MI. The cartridge can be MI or MM. The needle can be MI or MM. You can use a MM needle in a MI cartridge. But not a MI needle in a MM cartridge. It will sink in after a while. I have 60+ years of this stuff.

This is super helpful info. Thank you!! I can start piecing this all together. Is choosing a needle diameter something that needs to happen as well? The little bit of hunting I did brought up some diameter options. Any favorite websites for purchasing?

 

[62vauxhall]

I’m in the vocal minority as I’m cost conscious. I’m also not very demanding so all I want is a stylus that is not defective as in it plays properly.

How one perceives that is subjective.

Other than saying I’m partial to Tonar, I’ll leave recommending a vendor to others.

Some I have are conical, some are elliptical. Both work well. If a cartridge left the factory with an elliptical, I’ll replace it with same. The dimensions don’t concern me. If an original size can’t be had, so be it. I get what’s available at a reasonable cost.

 

[johnjhazel]

Are you looking for a new needle or a new cartridge ?

I’m in the vocal minority as I’m cost conscious. I’m also not very demanding so all I want is a stylus that is not defective as in it plays properly.

How one perceives that is subjective.

Other than saying I’m partial to Tonar, I’ll leave recommending a vendor to others.

Some I have are conical, some are elliptical. Both work well.

Tonar is great and has the most extensive lineup as does TurntableNeedles.com.

 

[johnjhazel]

Is the OP looking for a needle or a cartridge ?

 

[Aaron J.]

Is the OP looking for a needle or a cartridge ?

If you mean me, I'm open to either option. Given my current setup, what's the best option for sound quality? I know that may be too large an answer and depends on budget. Would the AT14S cartridge benefit from a better stylus, or would going with something completely different be more beneficial?

 

[Blue Shadow]

Given my current setup, what's the best option for sound quality? I know that may be too large an answer and depends on budget. Would the AT14S cartridge benefit from a better stylus, or would going with something completely different be more beneficial?

gonna be hard to find a great stylus for the ancient 14s.
yes, budget. We can help you spend between 29.95 (akers love that effing cartridge for some cheap reason) to about $1295.00.

But we need to know what you want in the way of sound quality? Sharp, crisp, clean, clear, smooth, bassy, great vocals, anything you can describe from what you have heard to help us point you to the right cartridge family.

Or just buy a nice AT 540 and call it a day and be back to where the AT14s might have been. There is also the Ortofon Blue, some Grado and a few others until we open your wallet a bit more.

 

[Aaron J.]

gonna be hard to find a great stylus for the ancient 14s.
yes, budget. We can help you spend between 29.95 (akers love that effing cartridge for some cheap reason) to about $1295.00.

But we need to know what you want in the way of sound quality? Sharp, crisp, clean, clear, smooth, bassy, great vocals, anything you can describe from what you have heard to help us point you to the right cartridge family.

Or just buy a nice AT 540 and call it a day and be back to where the AT14s might have been. There is also the Ortofon Blue, some Grado and a few others until we open your wallet a bit more.

Carts can go for insane money from what I've seen. Just saw one for $10K. I spent years building car stereos for myself and know what I like for that, but transitioning into home audio I have little reference for what I like. I'm not 100% sold on my Monitor Audio Silvers, but I do like them for vocals. I genuinely love an array of music and my vinyl will range from rock to metal to hip-hop and folk. How about clear & warm for a sound? My last car stereo was my favorite, because I went with clean milder bass, and warmer vocals using silk dome tweeters. I think I'd be comfortable in the $100 to $200 range if it improves over the current sound.

 

[johnjhazel]

If you would consider used, a Pickering XV-15 is a great cartridge. There is a large selection of needles available for it. The XV-15's can be be found on eBay. Do you live here in the States ?

For something new, maybe an Audio Technica AT-VM95'X' X = Available with different stylus assembly tips. The different tips are interchangeable within the model group. I have never heard one. I have paid half attention to the reviews and it seems to do okay. .

 

[Aaron J.]

If you would consider used, a Pickering XV-15 is a great cartridge. There is a large selection of needles available for it. The XV-15's can be be found on eBay. Do you live here in the States ?

For something new, maybe an Audio Technica AT-VM95'X' X = Available with different stylus assembly tips. The different tips are interchangeable within the model group. I have never heard one. I have paid half attention to the reviews and it seems to do okay. .

Yeah, I live in CT. Used isn’t something I thought of to be honest. I’d gladly give that a look.