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Phono amp that curbs higher frequencies

A

Ariburgess

New Member
Hello. I would like to find a replacement phono amp that might tamp down some higher frequencies—1.6k-2.5k. Currently I’m using the highly recommended budget phono amp Art DJ Pre II. I understand that what I’m looking for will cost more, however I’d like to keep the price within reason. Maybe $300 or less. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.
 
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I should have mentioned that I tried the Loki mini already with poor results. As I turned down the the 2k dial ever so slightly, nothing changed until the higher frequencies became flat or muffled. Turning down the 4k dial really didn’t do anything either until the treble became similarly flat.

I was watching a review of a headphone amp on YouTube and the reviewer had mentioned that it was a tad bright and that this could be ameliorated by getting a phono amp that slightly curbed the higher frequencies. He did not mention which phono amp, however.

That was my impetus for asking my question. It’s been my experience that forums like this provide more knowledgeable, thoughtful and comprehensive answers than those posed by YouTubers. That, and most, if not all, of these YouTube folks won’t entertain your question without giving them some money to them first.
 
What cartridge and cables are you using? I ask as many Audio Technica MM carts can be overly bright if the total capacitive load is higher than 100-120pF. Ortofon MM carts can handle 300pF easily, not sure about other brands...
 
Hi, This seems an unusual request, but it will be very, very hard to do it in the phono amp as it is counter to what nearly 100% of people require. You would have better luck using something like a Ortofon SPU cartridge in your system.

Cheers
 
here is my set up from input to output:

Turntable/stylus: 15 yr old Pro-next Debut III, I love it. No motor noise, belt is in perfect shape. It has been upgraded with a Pro-Ject Acryl-it platter and the stylus has been upgraded to an Ortofon OM20. I also have a record weight.

Phono amp: Art DJ pre II phono amp that connects to the turntable via the stock Pro-Ject RCA cables and ground wire. Essentially I bought the Art DJ because it had been (and still is) highly recommended in Reddit and AudioKarma as a an excellent, over performing, for its price, phono amp. I love that I’m not only able to control the gain, but I can see when clipping occurs. I have not seen the latter feature in any other amp regardless of price. The capacitance on the Art DJ is set to 200pF. OxyFuel interconnects connect the Art DJ to my tube amplifier.

Amplifier: Onix SP3 tube amplifier. I’ve replaced the stock tubes with 2 pair (each pair matched) of Sovtek 5881WXT / 6L6WC Tubes. 2 Electro-Harmonix 6922h tubes. 2 Groove Tube 12AX7 tubes. And 2 Sovtek 12AX7WA tubes.

14 gauge bare copper wire (no silver or tin plating) connecting from the 8ohm posts to a pair Omega speaker systems Super 3 XRS.

I would prefer, for financial reasons, not changing the amplifier, speakers or turntable. I could, if necessary, change cables (although that is a rabbit hole best treaded carefully) and/or phono amp.
 
Ariburgess said:
Hello. I would like to find a replacement phono amp that might tamp down some higher frequencies—1.6k-2.5k. (...)
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I'd also be rather surprised, if you could find such a feature in a phono stage. However, maybe you could find one of the classic Yamaha pre-amps with integrated 2-band parametric EQ used at or least near the upper limit of your intended budget - that would be the C-6 as well as the C-70, C-80 and C-85.

Alternatively you could get a standalone parametric EQ, provided your system would still allow for the integration of an EQ (which unfortunately most modern/current integrated amps and receivers don't anymore, for the lack of a suitable loop (be it a classic tape loop with monitoring function, a processor loop or a pre-out/main-in loop).

Well, and in case you'd happen to run a computer-based system, yet another alternative would be to pipe the the signal through the computer and manipulate it the with a suitable software like for example the Equalizer APO.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Ariburgess said:
(...) I love that I’m not only able to control the gain, but I can see when clipping occurs. I have not seen the latter feature in any other amp regardless of price. (...)
Click to expand...

That's because other phono stages usually don't need that.

Shall mean: Apparently the DJPreII was derived from Art's USB Phono Plus - a sort of USB sound interface, that can be run bus-powered. And hence the DJPreII works with an internal supply voltage of merely 5 V asymmetrical (i.e. not +/- 5 V, but just +5 V/0 V), as it also doesn't use any additional tricks (like a DC-to-DC converter) to raise the supply voltage - whereas other typical phono stages will usually work with a good bit higher internal supply voltages like for example +/- 15 V symmetrical. Which means, that the available voltage swing for the opamps inside is rather limited, so that the overload margin of the DJPreII is rather small - even more so, as the gain control for its output stage allows for a comparatively high overall gain of roundabout 45 dB. And hence it makes sense for the DJPreII to sport a clipping indicator (*).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini


*) Which one in fact would better regard as a clipping warning, though - 'cause it already turns red at an output level of ca. 0.5 V(eff.), which is ca. (-)9 dB below the nominal maximum output level of 1.4 V(eff.).
 
Yeah, You need a good parametric equalizer.

Your speakers are full range drivers, Yes?

Which means the speakers response has no real controls.

Something like this Tascam PE40 I found on the bay.

Also this SAE 1800 Parametric EQ on the bay for 200$ is a really good deal.

These will give you the ability to smooth resonant peaks out and cut or add levels in discrete bands, Very handy.

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have you tried playing with the loading on the phono stage? If its too much it creates a peak in response before it rolls off. Generally thats in the 12khz range though, so maybe not a factor. Still if its just a matter of flipping switches its easy enough to try.
 
I'm inclined to think the OM20 upgrade might be too hot for your liking in the treble. Have you tried a 5e or stylus 10, if so was there a bump in the treble?
 
1.5 to 2.5 khz is not a frequency range that a phono preamp will have any affect on.

This is "Midrange". A phono preamp is the wrong tool for the job.

You need a band pass filter to target that range, something only a parametric or 10/15 band graphic Equalizer can work on.

That said this is a common problem for full range drivers like the Omega Super 3.

Pretty~!

Buck

1548262-5e14e278-omega-speaker-systems-super-3xrs-loudspeakers.jpg
 
I have noticed Ortofon OM05 and 10 made things a lot brighter than the Grado Red (original version with traditional body style) and the Shure V15 iii that proceeded them. Most phono pre amps attempt to have a flat freq response beings the main reason you need one is to correct the RIAA curve. I suggest you purchase a warmer cartridge, maybe even one of them warm sounding conical ones.
 
Ariburgess said:
Hello. I would like to find a replacement phono amp that might tamp down some higher frequencies—1.6k-2.5k. Currently I’m using the highly recommended budget phono amp Art DJ Pre II. I understand that what I’m looking for will cost more, however I’d like to keep the price within reason. Maybe $300 or less. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.
Click to expand...
What impedance and capacitance loads is the pre-amp set at?
 
I would think that you should be looking elsewhere than the cartridge and phono preamp.
The OM20 is definitely not an over bright cartridge and the DJ PRE II has an essentially flat response.

I use a DJ PRE with an OM30, In fact it's very much like the OM20 (which I also have), but with deeper bass and a finer more delicate and detailed treble response. I run the DJ PRE with the gain set at the mid point and there is plenty of gain available with no clipping evident.
 
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