Phono preamp choices

[DavidTT]

I'm thinking about phono preamps noted below. I'm interested in thoughts/experiences with them. I currently run MM carts on a capable turntable (Rega P6) and am torn between MM-only versus MM/MC. Unless I hear otherwise I lean toward adding an SUT to a quality MM preamp when the time comes to run MC. These units tend to be available around $350-600:

-Rothwell Simplex (MM) or Rialto (MM/MC).

-Simaudio Moon 110LPV2 (MM/MC)

-MoFi Ultraphono (MM/MC)

-Rega Fono MM or Fono MC

-Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 SE (MM)

-Musical Surroundings Phonomena I

-Darlington MP-7

 

[patient_ot]

Can you audition any of these before committing to a purchase? I would not buy anything without a home audition first. If you have a dealer talk to them. You can also play the buy and return game if you want.

Slee has a worldwide loaner program where you can borrow whatever you want for 2 weeks just for the cost of shipping. It operates stateside and they have their own forum where you can sign up. I would suggest borrowing one of the higher level models as well as a cheaper model to hear for yourself.

 

[patient_ot]

Of the ones you listed I didn't own an Ultra phono but had a Studio Phono for awhile. There were a lot of things I liked about it but some I didn't. I ultimately sold it off. I'd probably be cautious about Mofi hardware at the moment since they are dealing with a high number of returns from the DSDGate scandal. If you run into any problems it may be hard to get decent customer service. Personally I have decided to avoid both Mofi and Music Direct for the foreseeable future.

 

[heyraz]

I have a Simaudio Moon 110LP (not sure what version) and think it's very good. Very clear and open using either a LO or HO MI Grado.

It was in my system until I found an Audio Research PH3 (tube) but I kept the Simaudio Moon and consider it my "back-up".

 

[rothwellaudio]

Rothwell Simplex (MM) or Rialto (MM/MC).

Fantastic choice.
Then again, maybe I'm a little biased.


I will say though, that if you want MM only, the Simplex is exactly the same circuit and same components as the MM section of the Rialto.
Personally, I think you're right about a SUT into a good MM phonostage. That's my preference too.

 

[katana1100]

I’d suggest this:
Vinyl Edition Gold - 12AU7 or 12ax7 tube phono preamp w/ iFi power adapter
I love mine, I think they are around $380 on eBay.
Here’s what I like:
American made, you can ask the guy who makes it questions
It uses an ic for one stage of amplification , then the tubes are next stage. The ic is incredibly low distortion. (https://www.ti.com/product/OPA2134?...Vw3xvBB1ocw-qEAAYASAAEgLRAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
It has option for mm/mc
It will come set properly loaded for any cart you use. I think this is very important and no one else does this. Tell him your cart and it’s recommended settings and he will oblige.

 

[Nashou66]

Id wait for the SOTA Pyx or Acrux that is due out soon. These are based on the Wyn Palmer DIY
units that so many of us Ak'rs who have built them. A truly great sounding Phono stage/Pre .

Athanasios

 

[desertrat748]

Unless I hear otherwise I lean toward adding an SUT to a quality MM preamp when the time comes to run MC.

^ This is what I am doing and gives you the options. Personally believe it is a better way to obtain the gain for mc.

Can you build your own preamp from a pcb? Or willing to do so? I have just tackled building my first one w help from fellow AKer.

Best decision I have made for preamp. You might want to look into it. You will be able to modify your build to suit your preferences, rather easily depending on your choice of build. Results can be better than something costing ten times more from a manufacturer.

There are design builds here on AK with several threads dedicated. I chose a build (fellow AKer worked out design) using a Hagerman Bugle2 pcb w changes to caps and op amps. Best decision I have made.

For SUTs, look into the microphone transformer builds and either build your own (easy to do w a prefab housing) or 100% prefabricated one. Search online for beyerdynamic 15:1 SUT.

I have used ones built from Shure mics, and one from beyerdynamic. Inexpensive < $250 total and beautiful performance.

If you are not interested in building your own SUT, do a search for prefab online:

 

[MisterDK]

@DavidTT - I can tell you about the Musical Surroundings Phonomena as I’ve had both the original and the II. They sound very good and are (very) adjustable for most cartridges you’re likely to encounter. They won’t do the very low output MC though - but you’ll probably never use one of them anyway (like .2mV or lower). You can also use the Phonomena with a SUT - then you’re good with even the very low output MC’s. Their sound is neutral, honest and full-ranged, build quality and reliability is good. I like the Phonomenas and used to recommend them to everyone looking at spending what you asked about. If you like adjustability - Phonomena has many settings for gain and cartridge loading, plus a couple for capacitance. I loved both of mine with a popular AT MC cartridge.

For what you’re looking to spend though, I’d now recommend one of the ear834 clone, tube units. I know you didn’t ask about them and probably weren’t considering one - but they sound better to me than any solid state phono pre I’ve had (8 different) and go for around $325 shipped, ready to use. You may want to read about ‘em. They’re a popular phono preamp on the lencoheaven website; lots of folks build custom 834 clones but they’re also available ready to go. Highly recommended. Just something else to consider..

 

[zackthedog]

I'm in the same boat as you are and slowly looking around for a good, affordable phono pre. I will mention that a felllow audiophile with a very good vinyl setup loves his iFi Phono 3. He's had (and built) a lot of tube phono stages and he feels this unit leaves little to be desired, even compared to some far more costly units he's compared it to.

 

[wyn palmer]

Id wait for the SOTA Pyx or Acrux that is due out soon. These are based on the Wyn Palmer DIY
units that so many of us Ak'rs who have built them. A truly great sounding Phono stage/Pre .

Athanasios

Thanks. Interestingly enough a Pyx has just replaced an IFI Phono 3 locally and the owner invited me to hear the difference.
He owns a pair of B&W 800D3s with a pair of Bryston 28B SST2s, a Technics SL1200G turntable and a variety of MC cartridges.
I expected there be little difference, but it was like night and day. The two had very different characters, so indeed separate phono stages can make quite a difference.

 

[zackthedog]

Thanks. Interestingly enough a Pyx has just replaced an IFI Phono 3 locally and the owner invited me to hear the difference.
He owns a pair of B&W 800D3s with a pair of Bryston 28B SST2s, a Technics SL1200G turntable and a variety of MC cartridges.
I expected there be little difference, but it was like night and day. The two had very different characters, so indeed separate phono stages can make quite a difference.

Was the Pyx an improvement, or just different?

 

[wyn palmer]

Was the Pyx an improvement, or just different?

In his system it was a surprising improvement, which is why he switched. That might not be the case in a different system, or for someone with different sensibilities.
His system is what > $100k new, and he always thought that all phono stages sounded alike so it was a big deal to him.
He listens to a fair bit of live music of a variety of genres and has his own radio show here. He is an ex communications engineer- he worked with Viterbi at Linkabit.
He has several Benchmark DAC3 HGCs scattered through his house and is pretty opinionated, so it was quite shocking to him. To be fair, he's not spent much time comparing phono stages, he just went by reviews and the designer's nearly incomprehensible write up when selecting the Ifi unit.

 

[mkane]

DavidTT, wait for the Pyx. We have had at least 7 different standalone phono stages in this house and the unit mentioned it tops. Ours is the DIY version

 

[zackthedog]

In his system it was a surprising improvement, which is why he switched. That might not be the case in a different system, or for someone with different sensibilities.
His system is what > $100k new, and he always thought that all phono stages sounded alike so it was a big deal to him.
He listens to a fair bit of live music of a variety of genres and has his own radio show here. He is an ex communications engineer- he worked with Viterbi at Linkabit.
He has several Benchmark DAC3 HGCs scattered through his house and is pretty opinionated, so it was quite shocking to him. To be fair, he's not spent much time comparing phono stages, he just went by reviews and the designer's nearly incomprehensible write up when selecting the Ifi unit.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

 

[DavidTT]

I lost the thread a bit in the last several posts. Is the Pyx a product that SOTA is putting out or is it a state-of-the-art DIY build? As it has turned out, I posted in BT about my search for phono amps and wound up with two coming my way, one a Hagerman Cornet3 and a Darlington MP-7. I'll plan to audition them and would love for one to become a keeper, at least until the urge strikes again.

I also appreciate the responses, and especially some of the suggestions re DIY builds, including on the SUT side. I'm going to need an SUT and would love to find or build one that fits in my budget.

 

[desertrat748]

I'm thinking about phono preamps noted below.

Look for a new thread “Best phono preamp less than $1,000” or close to that posted up tonight or soon by AK member Oranda.

If I could do just one thing to my system for improvement, this would be it. I so wish I had known this earlier in my audio quest. Before any cart updates, before any stylus builds or upgrades. Before new amps, table, tone arm, speakers.



It’s that good.

DR

 

[wyn palmer]

I lost the thread a bit in the last several posts. Is the Pyx a product that SOTA is putting out or is it a state-of-the-art DIY build? As it has turned out, I posted in BT about my search for phono amps and wound up with two coming my way, one a Hagerman Cornet3 and a Darlington MP-7. I'll plan to audition them and would love for one to become a keeper, at least until the urge strikes again.

I also appreciate the responses, and especially some of the suggestions re DIY builds, including on the SUT side. I'm going to need an SUT and would love to find or build one that fits in my budget.

The SOTA Pyx is a $250 MC/MM single channel design that uses the same architecture as the DIY build, but doesn't have the separate MM channel and functions like the warp filter and balanced out. The SOTA Acrux is the full design and is essentially the DIY build, with some trade offs and improvements.
I have no financial interest in this by the way, just an interest in the conclusions that listeners reach concerning the subjective reactions to what is essentially the most theoretically technically "perfect" and "neutral" phono stage out there versus all the rest. It has been an interesting journey, to say the least.

 

[DavidTT]

Interesting, especially since I have a Bugle2 here, which I think is the board @desertrat748 posts above. Is that linked to the Pyx and Acrux products noted by @wyn palmer? Sorry for my ignorance!

 

[desertrat748]

I lost the thread a bit in the last several posts. Is the Pyx a product that SOTA is putting out or is it a state-of-the-art DIY build? As it has turned out, I posted in BT about my search for phono amps and wound up with two coming my way, one a Hagerman Cornet3 and a Darlington MP-7. I'll plan to audition them and would love for one to become a keeper, at least until the urge strikes again.

I also appreciate the responses, and especially some of the suggestions re DIY builds, including on the SUT side. I'm going to need an SUT and would love to find or build one that fits in my budget.

Love the Hagerman, the build I just posted is one based on the Bugle2 board from Jim’s website. Look for the write up by Oranda. for parts list and changes. Bugle3 or Cornet3 are great choices. The modified build of the Bugle2 tops the Bugle3 in my opinion, by far.

That Beyerdynamic build can be found from a guy on e bay even if he doesn’t have any for sale, write him and he will build you one. He only has parts for a few more. Definitely worth it and not expensive at all. You might be able to find the beyerdynamic transformers for $100 a pair and a housing for $40 -$50 and connects but having one built shipped to your door in 2 days is awesomely perfect.

Edit: take a look at the pics of the Hagerman board. You can see the Vishay caps used for C4 & C6 and I hope the Silver Mica used in C5. Those changes along with the op amps used make all the difference in the world. I tried out a lot of combinations before it sounded this good. Again, look for the write up by Oranda as he did all the legwork with this build.