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phono upgrades
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vinylkid58
Super Member
Appears to be built to a very low price point, so probably not worth the trouble. When you can buy something like a used Technics SL-Q2 for the same money, why bother?
jeff
jeff
vinylkid58
Super Member
If used, there are many. Technics, Thorens, Rega, Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood, Yamaha, Dual, and the list goes on. Most made models all various price points. Some are more reliable than others, so that could be a consideration.
jeff
jeff
shelly_d
Not An Audiophool
Look for a Pioneer PL7. It hits way above it's price range. As quiet and stable as a Technics SL1200 for not a lot of money. I got mine for less then $40 a few years ago. It is light though, so it will need a well isolated location, like a wall shelf secured to the studs behind the wall. Make sure it has the head shell because it is unique to that tonearm, not universal by any means. Some up on the bay now for between $50 and $100.
Make sure you research how to ship a turntable and then refer the seller to those links and find out if he/she will pack that way, before you bid.
Good Luck.
Shelly_D
P.S. This has a very light tonearm and so needs a high to medium-high compliance cartridge.
Make sure you research how to ship a turntable and then refer the seller to those links and find out if he/she will pack that way, before you bid.
Good Luck.
Shelly_D
P.S. This has a very light tonearm and so needs a high to medium-high compliance cartridge.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Are you willing to consider used? Where are you located (price and availability varies by location)?
I'm in northwest Indiana... price range under 150....used is what I was looking for...been on eBay and placed a couple of bids... haven't won a bid yet
Thank you!
Back on eBay....bid on a sansui 222... hopefully I will win the bid... I need a tt that I can upgrade the cartridge and stylus...my current pl990 is to my understanding not possible to upgrade....many years ago we had a PL10, then a Technic (don't remember exact model)....both had S-arm and sounded great.... wanted to stick with something along those lines
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
If you're willing to drive a ways to pick it up:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/ele/d/carpentersville-technics-sl-23/6825485914.html
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shelly_d
Not An Audiophool
Let me share a resource with you to allow you to compare turntables:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable-database.php
This is a database of many (unfortunately not all) turntables past and present. It lists specifications in many instances and has links to more complete descriptions. Often the description will have specs that are not listed in the summary. You can get a very good idea of the performance level from the specs, here is how:
There are two that you can use.
The first is Rumble or Signal to noise. They mean the same thing. If it is called rumble the figure will look something like -65dB. If it is Signal to Noise the same performance with be a positive number, 65 dB. They are the same thing with the same performance. In this spec the larger the absolute value the better. This is how much noise (usually mechanical in nature) the turntable imparts to the music. Obviously the lower the better and larger numbers indicate that. To be able to read these numbers know that a 3 dB difference is the smallest difference most humans can actually hear and a 10 dB difference is a volume change of either double or half, that is, -70dB is half the noise level of -60dB. The best of the consumer grade turntables back in the day was the Technics SL1200 which had a noise level of -78dB. (Same as the PL7 I mentioned above). The Sansui is listed as -60dB. I would consider that entry level given the price point the PL7's come in at.
Having gone through that know that there were manufacturers that "weighted" their ratings to way the human ear responds to sound and others that did not. Unweighted figures will look decidedly worse then weighted but will perform just as well. In general, most Japanese ratings were weighted and are directly comparable. The well known brands that went unweighted were, for the most part, Thorens and AR.
The second spec is Wow and Flutter. This speed stability, (not accuracy). It is a measure of how much speed change happens as a percentage. The Technics I mentioned above is .025%. The Sansui is at .07%. Not the same level as the Technis but still very respectable.
As a general rule, the best of the direct drives will spec out a little better then the best of the belt drives but at a certain point the differences become inaudible. I have both a Pioneer PL7 and a Thorens TD-150. The Thorens is -65dB rumble and .09% wow and flutter. The PL7 comes in at -78dB rumble and .025% wow and flutter (same specs as the Technics). I cannot hear any difference between them.
Critical in this is your price / performance relationship. At your stated price point you will probably be looking at used Japanese turntables. That means the specs can tell a great deal about the turntable because almost evey one used weighted numbers. Use the database to help you decide the best bang for the buck.
Good Luck
Shelly_D
A lot of good helpful information....thank you for taking the time to explain.... my goal is to have a better than decent sound quality... I have an older model pioneer receiver vsx501, with Technics towers and JBL three way rears, and want a tt that will play decent low frequency and clear mids and highs.... I know it's too much to ask out of a lower priced cart/stylus, was considering an ortofon red....
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
Buy the turntable first, then start thinking/asking about cartridges. You need to make sure the cartridge is a good match for the tonearm on your turntable. Plus, you may end up getting a perfectly usable cartridge with the table you buy (but you may, or may not, have to to replace the stylus on a used table). Buying a cartridge without knowing what table it's going on is literally a case of putting the cart before the horse.
It's a matter of personal preference, but I'm not a fan of the Ortofon 2M series, especially the Red. Too clinical and too much inner groove distortion for my taste. I greatly prefer the warmer sound of vintage Shure cartridges (with either NOS Shure or JICO repacment styli). I also prefer the sound of the $11 Chinese made AT3600L over the 2M Red and most other under $100 new cartridges. I also don't like the ridiculously high prices of the 2M replacement styli. They run nearly 90% the cost of the cartridge.
So, get the table first, post the details, along with what, if any, cartridge came with it. Once folks now the details, they can make specific recommendations. Until then, you, and us, are just shooting in the dark trying to choose a cartridge when we have no idea what it's going on.
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EJB14
Active Member
We bought our son a Denon DP-300F from Crutchfield online a few years back on sale ($199), and he is still using it and loves it. I found it quite capable, quiet and clean sounding and has a built in preamp, which you can switch off when you get a better preamp; certainly the lower price point, but not a terrible new option.
I love my late 1970's Technics SL-D20, which is still going strong, and while it does not have as many options for cartridges (p-mount), it is super quiet, super low wow and flutter, and it sounds really good. If you buy a used Technics, it may require some service - kabusa.com (nice guy - whom I've bought other stuff from) sells refurbished technics p-mount TT's when he can find them with a guarantee I think.
Careful though - before you know it you are spending hundreds, then thousands on this hobby.
I love my late 1970's Technics SL-D20, which is still going strong, and while it does not have as many options for cartridges (p-mount), it is super quiet, super low wow and flutter, and it sounds really good. If you buy a used Technics, it may require some service - kabusa.com (nice guy - whom I've bought other stuff from) sells refurbished technics p-mount TT's when he can find them with a guarantee I think.
Careful though - before you know it you are spending hundreds, then thousands on this hobby.
Yeah, I didn't plan on buying a cartridge until after I obtained a nice to... I was merely reviewing other people's opinions on the various parts available and what their sound characteristics we're like...but like you said, get a tt first then go from there.... I'm not completely new to vinyl, grew up in 70's and 80"s when quad was common....uncle's always had nice systems and I remember the clarity vs 8tracks, reels and cassettes... CDs we're clear but sounded different from vinyl...just really anxious to get back to my music... because of health issues I am no longer able to work or go to school, and dead time at home is driving me crazy....at least my music can be my outlet....
