Pickering and Stanton Users and Collectors.
- Thread starter freQ(*)Oddio
- Start date
Awesome. Thanks wualta for pointing that out.
Well, if the other cartridges in your collection are of similar quality to the ones that you mentioned, they indeed might all be great!
Great line! I've personally stayed clear of this particular stylus precisely because of info here on AK.
freQ(*)Oddio
Super Member
That's a great review, I was sort of wondering at first why you were maybe not going to use the old sxv 3000 cart , and was hoping you would toss a stylus on it. and listen for a while. So many people including myself are buying the new hype carts that sound clean and nice, but are "very refined with a gray shade " compared to the old carts , pickering to me reveals the musics mistakes also, the squeak in the saxophone, a ride cymbals center bell, sounds like actual brass pinging, not just a nice, squeaky clean high end. I am a big fan.
Last edited:
freQ(*)Oddio
Super Member
I think that is probably a decent choice for $79.95 .02x.03 vivid line, i know its expensive but you are getting a real nice stylus, I have one similar breaking it in now, had never paid $80 for a stylus before the vividline, but I have bought $50 carts that I didn't care for, so its a ok deal, if you wanted to go even higher possibly the xsv 5000 shabita stylus would work on the 3000, I am not positive , it may not work, but that stylus is $129.
luke85
Super Member
how does the vivid line compare to the original D300 stylus sound quality wise ?
freQ(*)Oddio
Super Member
yes that's the million dollar question ,really cant tell you, know that the pickering stylus would probably sound more "pickering" than the vivid line, but you really dont have much choice today, I know by comparing my d750 with the vivid line, the lp .02x. 03 lets the cart show its stuff in maybe cleaner new style, but still pickering snappy.
bimasta
Addicted Member
I vaguely followed your exploration of ceramics a few months back, Joseph, but never took the plunge. But that was before I realized you are the Captain Kirk of cartridges. I must go back and review that thread and choose one... unless someone points me in a good direction. Are they all conicals, or am I way off base?
bimasta
Addicted Member
Wualta, I think you're totally right about that freaky frequency plot and increased surface noise. +5dB at 12K? That's nuts! Is there any way to tame it? Put a resistor in line or something?
But I still love the cartridge. I guess I'm not an audiophile.
For what it's worth, I found the old stylus carrier with brush. It has the stub of the broken cantilever, very accessible, not crushed, a perfectly round O just asking for a new cantilever. And I assume the tie-wire is intact (if there is one).
Now where do I find a worthy stylus/cantilever to graft on, without destroying a good cartridge to get it?
Your D81S stylus is better-behaved than the D3000 that made that pimple-curve, so the response you're hearing rises more smoothly at the top end. Much more benign in terms of sound quality, but there is a rise, and that will inevitably bring up little cracklings.
Taming it? No need for resistors. If you have tone controls on your amp/preamp/receiver, and if you're lucky enough to have selectable frequencies for your treble control, set it to the highest frequency (5 or 6kHz would be about right) and simply turn it down a click or two. No tone controls? There are other strategies.
If you prefer it as-is, you can still be an audiophile. Many megabuck cartridges have rising response above 10kHz. As long as it's a smooth rise, it's easily correctable should you ever want to.
Taming it? No need for resistors. If you have tone controls on your amp/preamp/receiver, and if you're lucky enough to have selectable frequencies for your treble control, set it to the highest frequency (5 or 6kHz would be about right) and simply turn it down a click or two. No tone controls? There are other strategies.
If you prefer it as-is, you can still be an audiophile. Many megabuck cartridges have rising response above 10kHz. As long as it's a smooth rise, it's easily correctable should you ever want to.
bimasta
Addicted Member
Thanks Wualta. I have tone controls but not adjustable turnover points. I'll see what effect lowering treble has later: working now. "Other strategies" would be welcome... but not necessary if they require an engineering degree. I'll just enjoy the Pickering on quiet records!
bimasta
Addicted Member
Just to ask again — Where do I find a worthy stylus/cantilever to graft on, without destroying a good cartridge to get it?
I found the old stylus carrier. It has the stub of the broken broken cantilever, very accessible, not crushed, a perfectly round O just asking for a new cantilever. And I assume the tie-wire is intact (if there is one).
Can a mere mortal buy a stylus/cantilever, or do I have to be a known retipper with international connections in the business?
Or is there an after-market stylus for any other cartridge, with a good stone, which I can recycle to the Pickering?
I found the old stylus carrier. It has the stub of the broken broken cantilever, very accessible, not crushed, a perfectly round O just asking for a new cantilever. And I assume the tie-wire is intact (if there is one).
Can a mere mortal buy a stylus/cantilever, or do I have to be a known retipper with international connections in the business?
Or is there an after-market stylus for any other cartridge, with a good stone, which I can recycle to the Pickering?
bimasta
Addicted Member
Thanks all. And Joseph, I wasn't thinking of SAS. It's my first transplant and the fare is too high if I screw up. Maybe the cheapest Vivid Line LP Gear has — the cart it's intended for doesn't matter since I'll be breaking it off. I guess I'll have to do some intensive research — but any suggestions appreciated.
And I take your point about Pickering's thinking — even though that wicked peak looks awful on paper, it sounds terrific. I guess "audiophile" meant "sounds great" in those days... while now it means "accurate" and how it "sounds" is a lesser concern.
And I take your point about Pickering's thinking — even though that wicked peak looks awful on paper, it sounds terrific. I guess "audiophile" meant "sounds great" in those days... while now it means "accurate" and how it "sounds" is a lesser concern.
freQ(*)Oddio
Super Member
you will find that most treble controls are in the 10-15khz range, its normal for carts to need a few clicks in either direction to offset varying cart or stylus eqs. i have a few carts with a high peak ,that sound best at almost a flat treble control, and some a little higher to get a similar high end.
Last edited:
bimasta
Addicted Member
Yes, I have some MCs, which include their frequency plots, and show the characteristic rise above 10Hz — but a gentle slope, nothing as sudden and steep as that that rise you posted! Yet the sound isn't nearly that extreme — maybe they used a different baseline in those days to measure the frequency?
Are you referring to the sound of the D81S in the XSV-3000 body being not-that-extreme? That's right, because the D81S doesn't have a misbehaving top octave the way the D3000 did, not even when you play it in the XSV-3000 body.
The baselines didn't change, but the care (and cost) that went into the D81S shows-- you should be getting a sound from the D81S/3000 body combination that's reminiscent of your MCs, with a similar treble rise, though it won't be exactly the same, with the D81S accentuating the crackle just a teensy bit more.
Since we're talking Pickering / Stanton, can anyone tell me about the UV-15 ? I came across a stylus I had picked up a while ago that the little note I stuck to it indicates it goes to that cartridge. I thought it may have been XV-15 and it was cheap so I grabbed it.
bimasta
Addicted Member
This post has no purpose really, just a personal note. I used LOMC's only for over 20 years, in arms with fixed h'shells. With MC, changing styli isn't an issue — you can't — you choose a stylus-type when you buy the cart. I started exploring MM's just over a year ago and it amazed me. And my experience now, putting the Stanton stereohedron into an ancient Pickering body I found in my drawer is more amazing. Add to this the versatility and range of removable h'shells, and the limitations of MC are clear.
And thanks to you guys for explaining this stuff to me. I was clueless.
MC's may still be "better". Or just different? This is a long hot debate I won't enter. You may need to spend $2K to make up your own mind.
One way to express the difference in sound, at least with my good MM's and good MC's, is that MC's are Apollonian and MM's Dionysian. MC's give a loftier, slightly detached sound — MM's a more organic, lively sound. MC's might be more inspiring, MM's are more fun.
My musings may be rubbish, I''m new to the game. I could see myself selling some of my MC's — some are NOS and would fetch a price — and listening very happily with MM's. But 3 years ago I sold 2 MC's (barely used Madrigal Carnegie 1 and NOS Monster Alpha (from the ZYX designer)), and immediately had a post partum depression. I have too much "pride of ownership" invested in these little marvels of Jurassic technology. On the other hand, the Madrigal was SO nice, what was I thinking?
I should have posted this in a different section, but it doesn't exist — Audio Shrink...
And thanks to you guys for explaining this stuff to me. I was clueless.
MC's may still be "better". Or just different? This is a long hot debate I won't enter. You may need to spend $2K to make up your own mind.
One way to express the difference in sound, at least with my good MM's and good MC's, is that MC's are Apollonian and MM's Dionysian. MC's give a loftier, slightly detached sound — MM's a more organic, lively sound. MC's might be more inspiring, MM's are more fun.
My musings may be rubbish, I''m new to the game. I could see myself selling some of my MC's — some are NOS and would fetch a price — and listening very happily with MM's. But 3 years ago I sold 2 MC's (barely used Madrigal Carnegie 1 and NOS Monster Alpha (from the ZYX designer)), and immediately had a post partum depression. I have too much "pride of ownership" invested in these little marvels of Jurassic technology. On the other hand, the Madrigal was SO nice, what was I thinking?
I should have posted this in a different section, but it doesn't exist — Audio Shrink...
It really is an orphan cartridge, analogous to Shure's M24H-- unique CD-4able body, nothing works properly in it except the few stylus/styli made especially for it. That doesn't mean you can't experiment, of course. No harm will befall.
The UV-15 [I own one] and its near-twin Stanton 780 (ditto) Pick is 350mH and Stant is 290mH. Both have only a third the inductance of their stereo cousins the XV-15s and 680s. That's enough of a mismatch to audibly scrunch down the treble should you put a UV-15 stylus in an XV-15 body, but of course it becomes a nice tweak for playing or digitizing records that have a hopeless amount of treble grunge or are just plain screechy. Music still sounds like music, but the high treble is turned down. The published literature shows a recommended R load of 100k, and even in stereo listening, this is how the UV-15 sounds flattest to me in my system. At 47k, the treble rolloff of a UV-15 stylus in an XV-15 body would be accentuated.
If you know all this going in, you won't be disappointed.
Advantages of the UV-15/780:You're tracking at 2g or a little more, very much like the other early quad carts (eg, AT12S), great for folks with heavier tonearms who want a line-contact stylus but don't want a high-compliance type. You're hearing your records with a 0.1 mil scanning radius, which means no IGD caused by stylus shape.
Now, you may be thinking that it's overcautious to argue that the UV-15 is a unique cartridge, therefore styli cannot be swapped with other cartridges, and you may also believe that the "not so great" reputation is undeserved.
In my case, I never thought it came up to my [unrealistic] expectations. But it's a fine stereo cartridge. The story is that Walter Stanton deemed the cartridge a dud. Don't know how true that is, but even though in my opinion it's not a great cartridge, it's certainly not a bad one. Not a dud. It IS a specialized one and therefore different and needs to be met on its own terms. It does have advantages. It's deffnly worth a listen.
Last edited:
bimasta
Addicted Member
Clearly you have a large house.
vwestlife
Super Member
Collecting phono cartridges and styli takes up lot less room than collecting vintage appliances.
