Pioneer CT-F9191 Troubles

[NotHovi]

I'm fresh into my better audio journey here and I would love any assistance/guidance/direction from this board.

I recently acquired a set of pioneer gear which included a Pioneer Pl-51 turntable, CS-99a speakers, and a CT-F9191 deck all for one hell of a steal. Initially didn't intend on holding on to the deck but I thought it might be nice to have around.

It's been in storage some 20/30 years but I sparked it up and it seems to fire up pretty well. Picked up a few cassettes to try it out and that's where I noticed some issues.

It seems like the deck will advance when playing for a while and then stop. It initially unraveled the deck and would stop but once playing for a while it worked fine. Also noticed that it almost always hangs up when the tape counter hits 99, it hangs up moving to 100 and stops the deck.

Reversing or FF doesn't appear to spin the gears (?) at all. Relatively competent with electronics but far from and expert From some initial homework I'd guess its the belts perhaps since its only related to play. I've identified a few other threads to start me on my way:
Help with belt replacement for Pioneer CT-F9191 | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
CT-F9191 tape transport help needed! | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
FF/REW fix ctf-8282,9191,1000 RXA-581, NOT DIY | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

Linked are a couple videos that show the issue I'm referring to for more context. The tape unraveling was prior to getting that play working.
Video 1
Video 2

Any ideas on where to go from here? Maybe how difficult a repair this might be? I don't want to ruin an otherwise great working set by attempting the repair.

 

[nbndtrain]

You need belts and pulley to fix play, ff/rw, and counter. I'd recommend ordering from wjoe as the kits come with printed instructions that are fairly easy to follow. Tape decks have a lot of small parts you need to keep track of, but it's not too bad if you're mechanically inclined.

 

[NotHovi]

You need belts and pulley to fix play, ff/rw, and counter. I'd recommend ordering from wjoe as the kits come with printed instructions that are fairly easy to follow. Tape decks have a lot of small parts you need to keep track of, but it's not too bad if you're mechanically inclined.

Would it be worth while to have MTF repair the clutch while disassembled or is it likely that the belt/pulley replacement would resolve the issues? I've reached out to him preemptively in case it goes down that route.

 

[nbndtrain]

I don't think the clutches fail as often as people assume. Usually the rubber has just become worn and hardened/slick on the pulley. One trick someone on here posted was a layer of shrink tubing over the pulley to give it a second life.

 

[Allan72]

Would it be worth while to have MTF repair the clutch while disassembled or is it likely that the belt/pulley replacement would resolve the issues? I've reached out to him preemptively in case it goes down that route.

For what he charges you would be silly not to have it done(assuming you live in the US and shipping is cheap). From what I have seen this is the weakest link in the deck. I would get it done before he decides to stop doing it or can’t anymore......

I would be very surprised if it is not cracked.
My unit seemed to work great for 2 or 3 ff/REW cycles through a tape then it started to struggle. I think it was not used for years and when I tested it the clutch cracked.

Also watch out for the wjoe belts, the smallest one was too small when I got my kit. If ff/REW has issues after install try removing the small belt. I ended up putting the original small belt back on(it is longer and finer gage), this made everything work great.

FYI
The wjoe kit comes with three belts and two tires.
The ff/REW pulley is an additional purchase.
While you are in there you might as well do it all.

 

[NotHovi]

I don't think the clutches fail as often as people assume. Usually the rubber has just become worn and hardened/slick on the pulley. One trick someone on here posted was a layer of shrink tubing over the pulley to give it a second life.

For what he charges you would be silly not to have it done(assuming you live in the US and shipping is cheap). From what I have seen this is the weakest link in the deck. I would get it done before he decides to stop doing it or can’t anymore......

I would be very surprised if it is not cracked.
My unit seemed to work great for 2 or 3 ff/REW cycles through a tape then it started to struggle. I think it was not used for years and when I tested it the clutch cracked.

Also watch out for the wjoe belts, the smallest one was too small when I got my kit. If ff/REW has issues after install try removing the small belt. I ended up putting the original small belt back on(it is longer and finer gage), this made everything work great.

FYI
The wjoe kit comes with three belts and two tires.
The ff/REW pulley is an additional purchase.
While you are in there you might as well do it all.

I've been doing my homework here and yea I observed some comments that noted the counter pulley being (small belt) being too tight. I've been running it here more the last two days and I think the counter is working more smoothly though I think the counter could use some lubrication still. Mark got back to me regarding the repair and its super reasonable so as long as its disassembled I may have it taken care of.

I think most likely I'll pull the trigger on the WJOE kits and hope the teardown isn't too overwhelming.

 

[Allan72]

I've been doing my homework here and yea I observed some comments that noted the counter pulley being (small belt) being too tight. I've been running it here more the last two days and I think the counter is working more smoothly though I think the counter could use some lubrication still. Mark got back to me regarding the repair and its super reasonable so as long as its disassembled I may have it taken care of.

I think most likely I'll pull the trigger on the WJOE kits and hope the teardown isn't too overwhelming.

when you get the belt kit it will show you how to take it apart. At this point you will have the clutch out of the machine to replace a tire. This is when I sent mine to MTF.

 

[GaryJarcia]

I've been doing my homework here and yea I observed some comments that noted the counter pulley being (small belt) being too tight. I've been running it here more the last two days and I think the counter is working more smoothly though I think the counter could use some lubrication still. Mark got back to me regarding the repair and its super reasonable so as long as its disassembled I may have it taken care of.

I think most likely I'll pull the trigger on the WJOE kits and hope the teardown isn't too overwhelming.

You'll appreciate the MTF clutch repair. I received mine back ~2 weeks after I sent it and it fixed all the issues I was having immediately. It's also wonderful to know the part will last as long as the rest of the deck, considering when you get into it, you'll realize the incredible build quality of the machine. The teardown to transport is not difficult at all, just ensure you have a copy of the service manual and take notes of every step you do.