Pioneer Pl-514 — worth servicing?

[gurdyp]

Hey all!

So I just picked up a Pioneer Pl-514 for a very — very — decent price. It's in good shape (at least aesthetically). The previous owner had bought it and never used it — he said he never got around to getting an amp and now doesn't have space for it.

I got it home and hooked it up, and it works — with a fairly decent sound, I find. (I hooked it up to a Kenwood KA-7100 and listened with AKG A 701 headphones.)

I quite like the look of it (will post photos) and it's good and solid. I did some quick research before I went to pick it up, and though it's not an audiophile TT as such, seems like a good beginner table. I like that it's auto-return. I'm not familiar with the cartridge/stylus which is a D2OE II — a really quick search seems to say it's Ortofon?

It does have some problems. It doesn't always start when you bring the tonearm over — it's like I have to move it to the middle of the record, and then the platter will start. The auto-return seems a bit hit and miss too. It plays mostly very well, but it has skipped on one track (of a new record) and there seems to be a lot of lag between the lift-lever and the tone arm.

So on to my question: Is it worth it to get it looked at by a tech? (I'm a total newb — I don't know my [] from my [] — so I'm not sure I'd be up for fixing it myself. )

Any advice or opinions here would be most welcome!! Thanks all.

 

[Crab33]

Congratulations, it looks in nice cosmetic condition. You may say that it's not an audiophile turntable, but it probably is compared with some of the budget turntables nowadays. It should be well built. I can't advise you on the auto-mechanism - they are often a problem with vintage turntables, but I'm sure someone will come along to help you.

The cartridge is an Ortofon VMS20E MkII. It was a well respected cartridge in its day. However, the stylus fitted is not a genuine Ortofon - it's an aftermarket copy, as Ortofon don't make them any longer. Normally, I would say replace the stylus of a used turntable - do you know whether the previous owner fitted that stylus as new and then didn't use it? The original stylus needed a tracking force between 0.8g and 1.2g, and most people used 1.0g, but with an aftermarket stylus I would be inclined to go towards the top of that range, to 1.1g or 1.2g. If it's skipping, this could suggest that the tracking force isn't set correctly. Did you zero-balance the arm and then set the tracking force and anti-skating?

The headshell isn't original - it looks like it has come off a Technics turntable. The VMS20E cartridge has a high-compliance stylus (soft suspension) that isn't ideally suited to the medium-mass (or perhaps high-mass) arm of the PL-514. Normally, high-compliance cartridges are used with lighter arms. But see how you go with it.

 

[gurdyp]

Thanks for all the info Crab33!

I'm after a warm sound, and so had ordered a Nagaoka mp110 cartridge/stylus (for my other TT). Do you think that would work with the headshell on the Pioneer? (Hard to know how much use the current stylus has had — the guy I bought it from hadn't used it at all (it was sitting on a shelf for a year) but didn't seem to know anything about the cartridge/stylus).

I saw someone online (a techie who had serviced the PL-541) who recommended a Jelco headshell and Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. Would the Jelco work with the Nagaoka do you think?

 

[Crab33]

In that case, the stylus may have been put on by the owner previous to the one you bought the turntable from, so its use is a bit of an unknown. You can get a range of styli to fit that cartridge, mostly aftermarket now though. Until very recently, Ortofon made a stylus called the FF15XE MkII which seemed to be well liked, should fit the cartridge and was a bit lower in compliance. You may be able to find some remaining stock.

Any standard half-inch mount cartridge could be fitted to the headshell on the Pioneer, so you could fit the MP-110, which would be a good match in terms of compliance. I think Jelco headshells are very expensive. If you want to buy a new headshell, there are many of these SME-type headshells on the market at a wide range of prices. It might be wise to avoid the cheap generic ones, but you can buy modestly priced headshells from reputable brands such as Audio Technica, Nagaoka and Ortofon.

 

[stereofisher]

I would fix this. Don’t think the on-off would be hard to cure. On projects like this I often use an Audio Technica 95 cart as a replacement. Using an early one on my bench Dual 1219. Amazed how good it sounds. What speakers are you using with the Kenny? Those amps are really well built.

Eric

 

[gurdyp]

Thanks Crab33 and stereofisher for the help and words of advice!

Stereofisher — the Kenny is a beast for sure. I'm slowly building my system, so speakers are my next project! I got rid of my small Paradigm speakers, and have ordered Klipsch bookshelf speakers (my space is quite small). Interested to see how they'll sound. I'm really after a warm vintage sound, so I think it'll be a process of trial and error. What amp/speakers do you have?

 

[stereofisher]

Thanks Crab33 and stereofisher for the help and words of advice!

Stereofisher — the Kenny is a beast for sure. I'm slowly building my system, so speakers are my next project! I got rid of my small Paradigm speakers, and have ordered Klipsch bookshelf speakers (my space is quite small). Interested to see how they'll sound. I'm really after a warm vintage sound, so I think it'll be a process of trial and error. What amp/speakers do you have?

I am running three different Marantz receivers. 2270 with JBL Decade 26s, a 4270 Quad with JBL 100s up front in the living room with small Pioneers on the rear. My shop system got a make over this week. Small Marantz 4415 Quad (4 channel) powering a pr of JBL Decade speakers. Got empty cabinets, bought woofers and tweeter that fit these cabinets. The originals are no longer available. Call it a poor mans Decade 26. Have AR 2AXs on the back. Matching amps to speakers was a trail and error for decades. Went through many systems where the sound wasn’t right. Back in the 70s I did not like Marantz sound. Turned out to be their receivers/amps did work well with Marantz speakers. Ran Pioneer receiver/amp. They were OK but not nearly as good as I got starting 10 years ago. I transistioned to Marantz when I got a free 4270. Cleaned it up. Had on the bench for 1 month and put it in the livingroom with the JBLs. It beat a beloved PIoneer SX 850! Back in the 70s I had a Kenwood 7100 tied to a pair of JBL 26s! A BAD combination. Had my doubts on a pr advertised here for $200. That’s cheap. Ended trading a mint pair of ADS 810 I got in a barter (free for service work) To me the 810 lacked in the high end. Loads of bass. A kids speaker. Sorry to owners of these. The JBL Deades like my 2270. And 4415 likes my home made JBLs.
Sorry this is wordy. Matching up can be tough. My little 4415 shop system sounds awesome. Discovered years ago they like old AR two way speakers. Mine were a dump find for one and donation for a second. Good luck building a system. Sadly, the things I like are very pricey now. Glad I got all of it. Pic of the shop system.

‘Eric

 

[fredjones]

This table is a keeper. Compared to modern production tables it is definitely not low end. The auto-return is adjustable. Getting the right belt helps a lot with correct speeds. The feet usually are collapsed, but aftermarket replacements easy to fit. I have one and consider it my most reliable table.
Another weakness is a plastic part under the tonearm. This part is attached to the underside of the tonearm with a set screw. Every single 514 I have ever come across this is cracked. If loose, this affects a microswitch and of course auto return.

 

[justjed2]

Definitely worth fixing up! Mine ran a 2M Blue, it's a much nicer cart than the Red. The Red is kind of bright, and with Klipsch speakers, might be a little sizzly. Unfortunately, you don't have the Pioneer headshell. The Technics model limits you as far as which carts you can use. On the Technics, the cart is held onto a slider by two short screws that mount from the bottom. The 2M series, and the AT-VM95xx, as well as some other newer carts, have threaded inserts and mount from the top only. The top screw on the Technics is for setting overhang. Also, the Ortofon 2M series doesn't fit the stock Pioneer headshell very well, anyway. I use an Ortofon SH-4 headshell, with good results.

 

[gurdyp]

I am running three different Marantz receivers. 2270 with JBL Decade 26s, a 4270 Quad with JBL 100s up front in the living room with small Pioneers on the rear. My shop system got a make over this week. Small Marantz 4415 Quad (4 channel) powering a pr of JBL Decade speakers. Got empty cabinets, bought woofers and tweeter that fit these cabinets. The originals are no longer available. Call it a poor mans Decade 26. Have AR 2AXs on the back. Matching amps to speakers was a trail and error for decades. Went through many systems where the sound wasn’t right. Back in the 70s I did not like Marantz sound. Turned out to be their receivers/amps did work well with Marantz speakers. Ran Pioneer receiver/amp. They were OK but not nearly as good as I got starting 10 years ago. I transistioned to Marantz when I got a free 4270. Cleaned it up. Had on the bench for 1 month and put it in the livingroom with the JBLs. It beat a beloved PIoneer SX 850! Back in the 70s I had a Kenwood 7100 tied to a pair of JBL 26s! A BAD combination. Had my doubts on a pr advertised here for $200. That’s cheap. Ended trading a mint pair of ADS 810 I got in a barter (free for service work) To me the 810 lacked in the high end. Loads of bass. A kids speaker. Sorry to owners of these. The JBL Deades like my 2270. And 4415 likes my home made JBLs.
Sorry this is wordy. Matching up can be tough. My little 4415 shop system sounds awesome. Discovered years ago they like old AR two way speakers. Mine were a dump find for one and donation for a second. Good luck building a system. Sadly, the things I like are very pricey now. Glad I got all of it. Pic of the shop system.

‘Eric

Sorry for the delay in replying here, Eric! Sounds like you really put in the time to find all this — but you got some great finds! Patience is the name of the game, it seems...

 

[gurdyp]

This table is a keeper. Compared to modern production tables it is definitely not low end. The auto-return is adjustable. Getting the right belt helps a lot with correct speeds. The feet usually are collapsed, but aftermarket replacements easy to fit. I have one and consider it my most reliable table.
Another weakness is a plastic part under the tonearm. This part is attached to the underside of the tonearm with a set screw. Every single 514 I have ever come across this is cracked. If loose, this affects a microswitch and of course auto return.

This is great! Thank you so much for this. I really like the sound of this TT. (I have a U-Turn orbit with an Ortofon 5e — and to me the Pioneer sounds better, even with its slight problems and its aftermarket cartridge!) I'll be hanging on to it and getting rid of the Orbit. I'm a little nervous about diving into the guts of the Pioneer — but after having done a bit of research (and watching a few youtube vids) I'm less intimidated.

I checked the speed (with the RPM app on my phone) and it seems to be running at 33.08 — which I think is acceptable, right? Anyway! Will keep researching, and will try the clean-up myself. Glad about this purchase for sure!

 

[gurdyp]

Definitely worth fixing up! Mine ran a 2M Blue, it's a much nicer cart than the Red. The Red is kind of bright, and with Klipsch speakers, might be a little sizzly. Unfortunately, you don't have the Pioneer headshell. The Technics model limits you as far as which carts you can use. On the Technics, the cart is held onto a slider by two short screws that mount from the bottom. The 2M series, and the AT-VM95xx, as well as some other newer carts, have threaded inserts and mount from the top only. The top screw on the Technics is for setting overhang. Also, the Ortofon 2M series doesn't fit the stock Pioneer headshell very well, anyway. I use an Ortofon SH-4 headshell, with good results.

I'm thinking about getting the Nagaoka headshell with the MP110 fitted. We'll see how that goes...