Hello, this is my first post here, I copy the question that I already asked in another forum. I wanted to see if anyone had the possibility to compare a Pioneer Pl 518 vs a Lenco L75 with stock arm and replinthed. Only in sound quality. I have the possibility to exchange my Pioneer Pl 518 for the Lenco, but I cannot audition it. Sorry for my English but it is not my native language.
Pioneer Pl 518 vs Lenco L75
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tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
Welcome to AK. IMO the Lenco is a far superior TT but it comes with numerous caveats (the stock tonearm is just one of them) and it requires a rather wide set of skills and experience to bring up to snuff, let alone improve. I'd suggest to stick with the Pioneer if you're just beginning - especially if you can't audition / test the Lenco and get a reliable assessment of it's condition (motor, main bearing, tonearm, V-Blocks knife edge mounts, idler condition, etc...). It can easily turn a bite too large to swallow. Also the tonearm is a dinosaur from a lost eon and I've found it's large effective mass figure unsuitable for anything other than the Denon DL-103 LOMC.
cafe latte
Addicted Member
The Lenco effective mass is around 18g with the heavy headshell so there are other carts out there you can use than the Denon, the lighter drilled headshell I dont know effective mass as I dont own one. V blocks are easy to replace and cheap, the sagging stub again is an easy fix, idlers are cheap but original is normally fine and most dont have motor issues either most will just need a lube.
The main issue with the arm is people set them up wrong most dont understand that the counter weight needs to be angles to level the headshell and that the arm needs to be floated with rigger weight all the way back then use rigger weight for downforce. With new V blocks and set up correctly the Lenco arm if fine and can sound really nice.
Chris
tnsilver
Stereo Puppy
The main issue with the Lenco tonearm is that it sucks. It's a piss poor implementation of a knife edge bearing with a tuning fork substituting for a wayrod and a doomed to fail tension wire suspending the back stub. The LH consensus effective mass for the L75 tonearm is 22 - 24g which makes it incompatible with too many common MM/MI carts. Other than the too thick stock wiring that very often resists the TA's lateral rotation - it's simply a bad performing tonearm. I've had it refurbished with new V-blocks and rewired with NOS Ortofon litz and had the dental floss / epoxy fix for the tension wire related sagging CW. It looked like this when I was done with it:
You'd figure I'd be happy with it but I'd rather have a new bung hole drilled in me than do it again b/c after all that work it still proved to be a turd. It was killing the sound of my Stan 681eee, 881S, my O'fon FF15 and VMS20 and it made the Shure's M75/M91/M95/M97 lows smear all over the place and the highs sibilant. On the bright side... It makes the DL-103 sing, which kinda makes up for the sheer ugliness of that spatula for a tonearm - but that's about it.
I ended up doing the only thing I could still do:
yeah, the Ortofon AS-212 was a near drop-in replacement (with the aid of anadjustment adapter collar base) and it finally cured the impression left by that horrible Lenco tonearm.
You'd figure I'd be happy with it but I'd rather have a new bung hole drilled in me than do it again b/c after all that work it still proved to be a turd. It was killing the sound of my Stan 681eee, 881S, my O'fon FF15 and VMS20 and it made the Shure's M75/M91/M95/M97 lows smear all over the place and the highs sibilant. On the bright side... It makes the DL-103 sing, which kinda makes up for the sheer ugliness of that spatula for a tonearm - but that's about it.
I ended up doing the only thing I could still do:
yeah, the Ortofon AS-212 was a near drop-in replacement (with the aid of an
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cafe latte
Addicted Member
Nothing wrong with the Lenco arm, but trying to get a 681 or 881 to work on it is foolish. The effective mass is around 18g and less with the lighter headshell that said an 881 and 681 need a MUCH lighter arm. My 881 sounds ok on my Technics sl1200G (effective mass 12g) and sounds wonderful on my Hadcock arm which is very light.The main issue with the Lenco tonearm is that it sucks. It's a piss poor implementation of a knife edge bearing with a tuning fork substituting for a wayrod and a doomed to fail tension wire suspending the back stub. The LH consensus effective mass for the L75 tonearm is 22 - 24g which makes it incompatible with too many common MM/MI carts. Other than the too thick stock wiring that very often resists the TA's lateral rotation - it's simply a bad performing tonearm. I've had it refurbished with new V-blocks and rewired with NOS Ortofon litz and had the dental floss / epoxy fix for the tension wire related sagging CW. It looked like this when I was done with it:
You'd figure I'd be happy with it but I'd rather have a new bung hole drilled in me than do it again b/c after all that work it still proved to be a turd. It was killing the sound of my Stan 681eee, 881S, my O'fon FF15 and VMS20 and it made the Shure's M75/M91/M95/M97 lows smear all over the place and the highs sibilant. On the bright side... It makes the DL-103 sing, which kinda makes up for the sheer ugliness of that spatula for a tonearm - but that's about it.
I ended up doing the only thing I could still do:
yeah, the Ortofon AS-212 was a near drop-in replacement (with the aid of anadjustmentadapter collar base) and it finally cured the impression left by that horrible Lenco tonearm.
Lots of carts will sounds great on the Lenco arm but not an 881 or 681 for sure.
I have 8 turntables and the Lenco sounds fine even against some stiff competition I just fit the correct carts to it and there are plenty in the 18g range.
Also your Lenco wires dont look correct at al, mine are way thinner, yes not modern thin but way thinner than that.
Chris
Pl 518 wow and flutter 0.03%.....rumble 65 db.....
lenco. wow and flutter 0.08...0.4?.....rumble 60 db
and all I see are negative posts on the lenco arm and its restrictive cartridge use........nothing on the pioneer, but I'll add the feet can be bad, easy fix.......
just things to think about.......your money...
lenco. wow and flutter 0.08...0.4?.....rumble 60 db
and all I see are negative posts on the lenco arm and its restrictive cartridge use........nothing on the pioneer, but I'll add the feet can be bad, easy fix.......
just things to think about.......your money...
T68
Super Member
I think it's not a choice between decks but a choice between what kind of user you are.
Want to just turn the record on, drop the needle and listen to music with good quality and at expected performance? Keep the Pio.
Want to get into tweaking and modifying and maybe upgrading stuff to be able to control and change how your turntable performs? Get the Lenco.
Another (boring) thing to consider may be maintainability. Both are ageing turntables. The Pioneer being a direct drive means a lot of electronics under the hood. If something goes bad there it can be harder to fix than on the Lenco which pretty much can be maintained with a screwdriver and a spanner.
...and the tonearm on the Lenco is not as bad as people say. You shall not trust everything you read on the interweb
.
...and it's easy to replace if you decide to try another.
...can you have both and get the best of two worlds?
Want to just turn the record on, drop the needle and listen to music with good quality and at expected performance? Keep the Pio.
Want to get into tweaking and modifying and maybe upgrading stuff to be able to control and change how your turntable performs? Get the Lenco.
Another (boring) thing to consider may be maintainability. Both are ageing turntables. The Pioneer being a direct drive means a lot of electronics under the hood. If something goes bad there it can be harder to fix than on the Lenco which pretty much can be maintained with a screwdriver and a spanner.
...and the tonearm on the Lenco is not as bad as people say. You shall not trust everything you read on the interweb
....and it's easy to replace if you decide to try another.
...can you have both and get the best of two worlds?
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cafe latte
Addicted Member
The Lenco wow and flutter is 0.06% not 0.08% and most measure around 0.03 especially with a new idler wheel. Re rumble again a new idler with modern rubber brings it lower than spec by a long way, if we are comparing specs the two are very similar, but the Lenco will still be going in another 30-40 years.
As I pointed out too there is not real issues re carts on the Lenco.
Chris
I order the Lenco L75 from a technician who sells it to me restored and with a new custom made plinth. My idea is to use a Vm95ml (I'm not really sure if it goes well with the arm). And in the future order a new arm (had seen Silver Note 512L). My question is mostly not being able to test it since I live far away and that it is not a downgrade with the original tonearm with respect to the PL 518 .
T68
Super Member
Yup, seems to be a seller who knows what he is doing.
Once you get it and if you have more questions, want to learn more about Lenco or just get inspired, sign up for an account over at https://www.lencoheaven.net/. A lot of useful information and guides there. And most important, a lot of nice and helpful members.
Once you get it and if you have more questions, want to learn more about Lenco or just get inspired, sign up for an account over at https://www.lencoheaven.net/. A lot of useful information and guides there. And most important, a lot of nice and helpful members.