Pioneer PL-560 DD - Should I Keep It

[AriZoNaiCe]

Hey All,

Long time reader and member, first time poster...

I purchased a PL-560 DD for what I feel was a very fair price. However, during shipping (I know, I know...), the platter (not taped down or removed) disengaged from the plinth/base and mashed on the tonearm, breaking the tonearm rest and some bits of the cartridge. The cartridge was old and not what I planned to use, and the tonearm rest can conceivably be replaced pretty easily.

Here's where it gets interesting. The platter spins VERY fast, as if it's not receiving any resistance from the speed control, which on this unit is a press on/press off button (33/45). When the quartz lock is off, the meter is pinned to the right (+6%), but the speed is the same whether quartz lock is on or off. I have some DeOxit D5 arriving tomorrow and will see if that resolves the table's speed issues. If it's not the switch, POT VR1 (Oscillator Assembly), or POT VR2 (Control Assembly), do I start looking at expensive repairs and possibly having something wrong with the motor (I don't think that'd be the case, but I am nowhere near an expert).

Aside from the tonearm rest and the speed issues, the turntable appears to work properly, including the auto mechanisms.

Because this was an eBay purchase, and it was damaged when it arrived, I can return the unit for a refund. My question is, given that I paid a good price for this, and the issues seem innocuous enough, does this community think I should hang onto it and work on repairs? I'm handy with a soldering iron, though I don't know if re-capping is something I'd undertake. I'm in SoCal, if anyone here likes that kind of stuff and want me to pay them to hang out while we do it together.

Thanks, all!

-- Brian

 

[MRL_Audio]

Send it back. Get your money back and move on. You have no idea what’s really wrong here. Could be opening a box of turds and not know it. By the time you figure it out it may be too late for a refund. That’s my opinion unless it was free. The seller may offer a partial refund allowing you the wiggle room to feel comfortable trying to fix.

 

[AriZoNaiCe]

Send it back. Get your money back and move on. You have no idea what’s really wrong here. Could be opening a box of turds and not know it. By the time you figure it out it may be too late for a refund. That’s my opinion unless it was free. The seller may offer a partial refund allowing you the wiggle room to feel comfortable trying to fix.

Thanks for the quick reply and advice!

I can certainly request a partial refund and then use the extra $$ to repair. I paid ~$125 less than I'd be willing for a functional manual PL-550. Given that this is automatic, and a partial refund would give me around $200 to work with for repair, my biggest problem is finding someone qualified to work on it. That person probably isn't me.

 

[boreas]

The speed issue is probably a failed IC (chip) and will be difficult to find. Also, there's a good chance that the chip was bad before the shipping damage occurred. The smart thing to do is to send it back for a full refund (including return shipping).

 

[PabloX]

Definitely send it back.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Send it back. Get your money back and move on. You have no idea what’s really wrong here. Could be opening a box of turds and not know it. By the time you figure it out it may be too late for a refund. That’s my opinion unless it was free. The seller may offer a partial refund allowing you the wiggle room to feel comfortable trying to fix.

Agree. Send it back.

 

[stereofisher]

Best to start over, send this one back. Try again. Sorry it happened.

 

[fredjones]

If you enjoy working on tables and can get the seller to give a partial refund, then you may want to go that route.
Packing a table is no fun. Let the seller know what a reasonable fee to replace broken parts or repair would be.
Sellers usually jump at this, because they don't want to get a broken item back or pay return shipping either.
Just an option.

 

[AriZoNaiCe]

If you enjoy working on tables and can get the seller to give a partial refund, then you may want to go that route.
Packing a table is no fun. Let the seller know what a reasonable fee to replace broken parts or repair would be.
Sellers usually jump at this, because they don't want to get a broken item back or pay return shipping either.
Just an option.

Good to hear the other side of this. I was heavily leaning towards keeping it and looking for a partial refund, but the overwhelming responses above had me really questioning that idea. I was hoping to see the responses from some of the well-known Pioneer experts in here telling me, "Don't worry about it -- that's nothing serious and can probably be fixed with some time, effort, and a few bucks." I'm going to hold off for another day and see if those guys think this is a lost cause or not. I agree that shipping it back is a hassle for me and I'd actually feel bad putting the original seller in that position. Aside from poor packing and the possibility of the speed already having been an issue (no idea if they knew or not), they were really great throughout the process.

Thanks, ya'll!

 

[JamVal]

Of course if you do want to keep it you should ask for a partial refund. The improper packing and broken arm rest are enough to warrant opening an "Item Not As Described" case.

Keep in mind the seller can take an all or nothing position. The only thing ebay can force him to do if you don't come to an agreement is have you return the deck for a full refund. Ebay cannot force the seller to give you a partial refund. They can only force the seller to accept a return at seller's return shipping expense. You, the buyer, are in a position to win the dispute, but if ebay is forced to make a resolution it is 'all' or nothing. 'All' being return the item (at seller's expense) for a full refund.

So if you are making the speed issue part of the complaint, I wouldn't start attempting to fix anything until you resolve whether or not the seller will give a partial refund. If the seller takes an all or nothing position and is willing to pay to get it back, you don't want to complicate the issue by even opening it up to deoxit the pots. It gives the seller the opportunity to say that you did the damage. I hope you took pictures of the platter out of position and broken arm rest when you opened the box and sent the photo to the seller.

 

[AriZoNaiCe]

Of course if you do want to keep it you should ask for a partial refund. The improper packing and broken arm rest are enough to warrant opening an "Item Not As Described" case.

Keep in mind the seller can take an all or nothing position. The only thing ebay can force him to do if you don't come to an agreement is have you return the deck for a full refund. Ebay cannot force the seller to give you a partial refund. They can only force the seller to accept a return at seller's return shipping expense. You, the buyer, are in a position to win the dispute, but if ebay is forced to make a resolution it is 'all' or nothing. 'All' being return the item (at seller's expense) for a full refund.

So if you are making the speed issue part of the complaint, I wouldn't start attempting to fix anything until you resolve whether or not the seller will give a partial refund. If the seller takes an all or nothing position and is willing to pay to get it back, you don't want to complicate the issue by even opening it up to deoxit the pots. It gives the seller the opportunity to say that you did the damage. I hope you took pictures of the platter out of position and broken arm rest when you opened the box and sent the photo to the seller.

Thanks for that advice, JamVal. You're absolutely right -- I won't do anything now until I determine if the seller wants to provide me a partial refund. If I decide to open a case for "Item Not As Described", is it possible for me to receive negative feedback for that? I know I can still leave feedback after the case, but I do not know if the seller can...

I really don't want to be an unreasonable buyer here, but the TT really did break during shipping and was not packed properly. I sell on eBay, too, so I know there are some people you can't please. I'd like to think I'm not one of those; I've never opened a case before, and I've been on eBay since 1999.

 

[JamVal]

Thanks for that advice, JamVal. You're absolutely right -- I won't do anything now until I determine if the seller wants to provide me a partial refund. If I decide to open a case for "Item Not As Described", is it possible for me to receive negative feedback for that? I know I can still leave feedback after the case, but I do not know if the seller can...

I really don't want to be an unreasonable buyer here, but the TT really did break during shipping and was not packed properly. I sell on eBay, too, so I know there are some people you can't please. I'd like to think I'm not one of those; I've never opened a case before, and I've been on eBay since 1999.

No worry about negative feedback. Ebay does not allow sellers to leave negative feedback for a buyer at all, they changed that a few years ago. My wife and I have been selling on ebay for over 15 years and ebay has closed most loop holes on 'bad' sellers that were giving honest sellers, like me, a bad name.

As a buyer in these circumstances you are in the driver's seat. Just from the standpoint of a poor packing job and the broken arm rest you will win the case. Worst case scenario is the buyer refuses to give a partial refund and ebay provides you with a shipping label to return it. The label cost gets charged to the seller's account. However, No money is transferred until you ship the item back. When the tracking shows that the item is delivered to the sellers address you get the full refund and the seller gets charged for the return shipping. So even in the worst case, you will still have the option to keep it, but without a refund.

My advice is to take the following steps (if you haven't done so already)
1. Take photos of the damage.
2. Determine what you think is a reasonable amount for a partial refund with the understanding that this becomes a negotiation and the buyer could counter with a lower amount.
3. Send the seller an ebay message stating what happened and that you want a partial refund - or else - that you want to return the item for a full refund. Attach the photos of the damage.

By asking for a partial refund you have not given up your right to open a "Return Case - Item not as described." Ebay encourages buyers and sellers to work out their problem before ebay gets involved. It's understood that these situations are a negotiation, and if the buyer and seller can't come to an agreement ebay will get involved and they will side with you in this case.

If the seller refuses to come to an agreement on a partial refund, then open a Return Case. There is a 30 day time limit from the date the item was delivered to you. So you can't let the seller stall.
Good luck.

 

[AriZoNaiCe]

No worry about negative feedback. Ebay does not allow sellers to leave negative feedback for a buyer at all, they changed that a few years ago. My wife and I have been selling on ebay for over 15 years and ebay has closed most loop holes on 'bad' sellers that were giving honest sellers, like me, a bad name.

As a buyer in these circumstances you are in the driver's seat...

If the seller refuses to come to an agreement on a partial refund, then open a Return Case. There is a 30 day time limit from the date the item was delivered to you. So you can't let the seller stall.
Good luck.

Duh -- I remember the seller feedback thing now. Sounds like you're the kind of seller with whom I like dealing. Too much on the proper punctuation/wording?

I had an e-mail chat with the seller shortly after posting, and he replied that he just wants this behind him and is open to whatever I want to do, either partial refund or open case and go with full return refund + return shipping. He seems mostly frustrated that the shipping didn't go well. I feel for him -- he seems like an honest guy.

I paid $325 for the turntable. He seems willing to do just about whatever because I don't think he wants back the broken turntable. Plus he'd be out the return shipping cost on top of that. I don't want to be unreasonable, but I don't want to be sitting on a bum deal either. In a worst-case scenario, I think I can get the oscillator assembly and control assembly for ~$200 (sourced new through UED. That seems excessive -- I'd like to think we could fix the existing boards...these old tables aren't THAT complicated, are they?

Thoughts on what I should ask for in a partial refund?

 

[JamVal]

I was afraid you would ask that. It looks like you paid on the low average side for a working PL-560.
There's only a few that sold as a Parts or For Repair unit and they went in the $140 range.

So as a starting point: $325 less $140 = $185
So asking for $200 might be fair.

I have no experience with the PL-560. I have a yard sale PL-530 that has worked flawlessly for the 3 years I've had it. Only needed some deoxit in the speed pots and lubed the auto return mechanism.

 

[AriZoNaiCe]

I was afraid you would ask that. It looks like you paid on the low average side for a working PL-560.
There's only a few that sold as a Parts or For Repair unit and they went in the $140 range.

So as a starting point: $325 less $140 = $185
So asking for $200 might be fair.

I have no experience with the PL-560. I have a yard sale PL-530 that has worked flawlessly for the 3 years I've had it. Only needed some deoxit in the speed pots and lubed the auto return mechanism.

Thanks a ton for your helpful advice! The seller was receptive to both full refund and partial refund. We agreed on $175 refund. The real decision-maker was my wife, who said, "You really like working on projects like these. So long as you don't start working on it in the living room, I think you should keep it and try to fix it." Raise your hands if you've heard something similar from your SO. :-D

 

[ghazzer]

Here's hoping that things go your way and repairs are not complicated.

You need to take your wife out to dinner and thank her for her appreciation of your capabilities.

 

[AriZoNaiCe]

Here's hoping that things go your way and repairs are not complicated.

You need to take your wife out to dinner and thank her for her appreciation of your capabilities.

Thanks! I'm absolutely terrible at photo-documenting this stuff, but I will try. I suspect I'll have several other threads begging for help from others on this forum.

 

[JamVal]

Thanks a ton for your helpful advice! The seller was receptive to both full refund and partial refund. We agreed on $175 refund. The real decision-maker was my wife, who said, "You really like working on projects like these. So long as you don't start working on it in the living room, I think you should keep it and try to fix it." Raise your hands if you've heard something similar from your SO. :-D

Happy to hear that you were able to work something out with the seller. Time to roll up your sleeves and get to work. Hopefully cleaning the speed pots is all it needs and a new arm rest is easy to find.

My wife isn't as confident in my abilities as yours. But I tend to find items that look hopeless on first glance at a bargain price. She insists that I leave a set of test speakers, wires, RCA cables, a small amp, a cassette tape, DMM, etc in the car so I can at least test what I find at yard sales. Come to think of it, I made a Dim Bulb Tester a few years ago, I should put that in the car too. Last year I found a PL-518 with no feet and a dust cover that was filthy. She thought I was crazy, but it turned out very good and went to someone that appreciates it.

Good luck