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Pioneer PL-600

Buttercup

Buttercup

Well-Known Member
I have an Audio Technica PL-120 TT that has a buzzing sound that I just can't remedy...

As a replacement I found one of the silver Pioneer PL-600's, that I'd heard so many good things about.
After setting up the proper overhang, tracking force and anti-skate, I gave it a go...what a disappointment, the Pioneer is very quiet, clean and accurate I guess, but it just doesn't do the music justice...the music is just flatter.

Other than the buzzing, the Audio Techna blows the PL-600 away...could the Pioneer just need recapping? or is a late model cheapo table just better than a 1980 TOTL Pioneer?
 
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Well, I would first ask what cartridge you're using, and did you use the same cartridge on both tables to compare?

Sometimes old RCA cables can hamper the sound. I don't know if that's the situation here. I'd also make sure all connections are clean. Are the arm bearings snug? The arm is responsible to a large extent for the signature sound.

Failing capacitors do not involve the audio circuit. That's motor speed control. While the PL-600 is certainly not the be all and end all, IMO it beats out an awful lot of big name competition. So barring the things I've mentioned, I can't explain the difference other than this AT PL-120 must be a heck of a turntable! :D
 
Check Howards suggestions, a PL-600 should blow that AT away! I used one for a long time and it took a lot of table to finally replace it. :scratch2:
 
Also check to see that the retaining bolts that lock the suspension in place have been removed before play. These retaining bolts are located underneath the platter. You can tell if the suspension is locked down by pressing on the platter. The base of the tonearm should move with the platter, and be a bit bouncy. If both seem static, then pop the platter and remove the 3 retaining bolts.
 
Your comment about the PL-600 needing recapping is curious. Although a capacitor in the circuitry might affect the speed or command articulation, it shouldn't normally affect the audio.

What amplifier are you plugging the PL-600 into? Does it have a phono input? And are you using that input?

Fred
 
Fred Longworth said:
Your comment about the PL-600 needing recapping is curious. Although a capacitor in the circuitry might affect the speed or command articulation, it shouldn't normally affect the audio.

What amplifier are you plugging the PL-600 into? Does it have a phono input? And are you using that input?

Fred
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly, the AT has a built in preamp, so if you're using that and running into a line level input, it will sound right. If you plug the PL-600 into the same input it won't sound good at all. As Fred suggested, you need a phono input on your amp/receiver.
 
Thanks for all the input...

The retaining screws have been removed and the tonearm and the platter are suspended and isolated from the chasis.

I tried two different cartridges: Shure M97xE and the cart that came on the AT-120, an ATP-2...I tried first with the same overhang (51mm) that I use on the AT, then I adjusted the overhang to match the PL-600 owners manual (49mm)...same results with both carts. I even tried using the original Pioneer headshell with different setups, just to be sure...I really want this table to sound right.

I'm using the phono inputs on a Proton P-1100 pre-amp, I'm not using the AT's built in phono stage. There is no noticible difference in the volume of the two tables.

I don't know how to check the tonearm bearings...but there's no play in any direction.

I did clean the RCA connectors with deoxit...could the interconnects themselves really make such a dramatic difference?

The AT sounds fantastic, full, detailed and has good seperation. It has a buzzing sound that seems related to the tonearm because when I touch the tonearm, it alters the frequency of the buzz. If I power the turntable off with the amp on, it gives me a weird almost arcade game sound through the speakers. The Pioneer has none of that...it's quiet as can be, but also flat and lifeless sounding.

I'm really disappointed, and not sure if I should spend time and $ on this one or just take the loss and move on...

All I want is a table that sounds like the AT without the buzz and picks up the stylus at the end of play.
 
Have you checked the Verticle tracking angle.
That 600 lets you move the tonearm up and down.
Sounds like you have done most other stuff but I haven't noticed any mention or this.
49mm is right for that table.
Flat and lifless it should not be!
 
I haven't checked the VTA...I saw it mentioned in the owners manual but I'm not exactly sure how to go about measuring against the round tonearm...it looks correct by my eye. They should make a level for that!
 
godseys@veri said:
I haven't checked the VTA...I saw it mentioned in the owners manual but I'm not exactly sure how to go about measuring against the round tonearm...it looks correct by my eye. They should make a level for that!
Click to expand...
That's close enough. In any case it wouldn't make the kind of difference you're describing.

It could be the RCA cables, but it would be a shame to go through swapping them only to find you were back to square one. But then again, there are good ones that are cheap, so it's only a little investment and if it's a no go, you can always use them on another table. If you're interested do a search here on Petra interconnects and you'll see the link I posted to the source. But to be honest even before I swapped mine out, my PL-600 sounded great. It's a puzzle. :scratch2:
 
godseys@veri said:
I haven't checked the VTA...I saw it mentioned in the owners manual but I'm not exactly sure how to go about measuring against the round tonearm...it looks correct by my eye. They should make a level for that!
Click to expand...

As Howard says usually eyeballing it is good enough for level although some cart prefer nose up or down.
Just mark it somehow where it is now before you adjust. There are a couple rings on the shaft that help with height a bit.
 
I tried playing with the VTA...it didn't make any real difference, but it's something else I understand a little better now. I'm punting on the PL-600. I'll keep using the AT until I run across a better one.

Thanks to everyone for the help.
 
I'll put it to you this way i own one and liked it it has a different sound from what i was use to which is Technics 1600 1700 and 1800MKII and at times i thought it was lacking but once i did a tonearm wrap with plumbers teflon tape (the thin stuff) and added some damping to the the unit it sits on I did like the improvements.
 
I don't think the issue here is the sound of a PL-600, I think it's this particular PL-600. It has some issue that's holding it back.

If I see another PL-600 in my price range, I'd probably pick it up.
 
godseys@veri said:
I don't think the issue here is the sound of a PL-600, I think it's this particular PL-600. It has some issue that's holding it back.

If I see another PL-600 in my price range, I'd probably pick it up.
Click to expand...

If there was a problem with it it would mis-track or the arm would drift badly when cuing it. What i suspect is that the AT table may have some of the signatures of it's cartridges in that they have been described as in your face.
If that is what you are looking for in sound then I'd say try an AT440ML or an AT440MLA I know the 440ML has been described by some as being on the bright side.
 
godseys@veri said:
I don't think the issue here is the sound of a PL-600, I think it's this particular PL-600. It has some issue that's holding it back.

If I see another PL-600 in my price range, I'd probably pick it up.
Click to expand...
Where are you located? Put it in your profile so it shows up in your posts. Maybe someone local can look at it.
 
Play the same album on the table and a CD version and see if they sound alike. Is it possible you're just used to the way the Audio Technica sounds?
 
Buttercup said:
I have an Audio Technica PL-120 TT that has a buzzing sound that I just can't remedy...

As a replacement I found one of the silver Pioneer PL-600's, that I'd heard so many good things about.
After setting up the proper overhang, tracking force and anti-skate, I gave it a go...what a disappointment, the Pioneer is very quiet, clean and accurate I guess, but it just doesn't do the music justice...the music is just flatter.

Other than the buzzing, the Audio Techna blows the PL-600 away...could the Pioneer just need recapping? or is a late model cheapo table just better than a 1980 TOTL Pioneer?
Click to expand...
Is it the silver or black model?
 
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