Pioneer PL-A45D sticking/repeating issue

[Growcho]

So, I finally got the dreamy, mint condition, refurbished 70s turntable I'd been looking for - a Pioneer PLA45D - to replace my boring old Denon dp7f, but am having lots of trouble with the kind of skipping where it gets stuck in a spot and keeps repeating it.

I know it's not the records themselves because the boring old Denon plays them all perfectly. The Pioneer has a Shure M91ED with a brand new 4760-DE stylus. I've tried every combination of tracking weight and anti skating settings and that doesn't seem to affect it (I honestly can't *hear* any effect whatsoever from tracking weight/anti skating adjustments). It's on a level, stable surface. Everything is clean - stylus, records, etc. Is there anything else I should be looking at?

That boring old Denon is looking a lot better at the moment I gotta say... lol But I'd love to solve this, since this Pioneer looks SOOOO much cooler and is super fun to use.

Thanks much for any ideas, y'all.

 

[dmar]

Can the arm go to the runout of the LP? If so, do you have another cart to try?

 

[Montycat]

Does it stick at the same location every time? On different records? And what tracking force are you using?

 

[Growcho]

Can the arm go to the runout of the LP? If so, do you have another cart to try?

I don't have another cart currently. By that, do you mean the arm plays the full LP? If so, yes.

Does it stick at the same location every time? On different records? And what tracking force are you using?

It tends to stick at certain locations repeatedly, yes - none of which were ever a prob on previous turntables.

As far as tracking force, I've literally tried every setting from very light to as heavy as possible with no noticeable difference either way.

It sticks/loops maybe 2 or 3 times over the course of each song. Sometimes it resolves it after a few sticks, sometimes it just keeps sticking over and over.

 

[Montycat]

Zero balance the arm so it's floating level, take anti skate off. Blow from side at the arm and see it it catches anywhere. Try a few times in both directions.

 

[Govany]

Also make sure the tonearm lifter is letting the arm all the way down..should be a gap between the arm & lifter when playing a record

 

[Growcho]

Hi all - thanks much for the responses. I'm starting to suspect there is some internal damage here. The tonearm, even in manual mode, does not move freely and there are lot of clicking noises happening. Also, the platter appears to be a bit warped, though I can't quite tell whether it's the mat or the platter itself. There's definitely quite a wobble. There are a number of odd glitches happening that are making me think damage en route.

This was my FOURTH attempt to buy a TT online and no matter how I try I just can't seem to make clear to sellers how thoroughly the package delivery system has broken down here in the rural deep South. No matter how I try to tell them that triple-boxing is the ONLY way it's gonna work, I keep getting "don't worry! I've shipped many without issues!" etc.

If I'm gonna try this again I think I gotta get more pushy about the packaging.

Thanks folks for the effort.

 

[Montycat]

Coincidentally I just brought home the same model turntable. I'm going to check it out in the next few days (it's still in the car) so I might be able to help more.

 

[Growcho]

So, here's another chapter:

After balancing the tone arm and then doing extensive testing I've determined that the only way I can totally eliminate this "looping" (where it skips backward repeatedly) is to have the antiskate on zero and have the counterweight screwed all the way onto the tonearm, literally as far as it can go. This means actually removing the little plastic number gauge thing from the counterweight so I can screw the thing on even farther.

This bizarre setup totally fixes the looping problem. If I adjust any aspect, the looping returns. Oh, and the side effect is that if I have it set up that way, the tone arm can no longer return.

So... wondering if maybe the antiskate mechanism was damaged in some way? Boy is this thing beautiful, but had to sadly unplug it and re-instate the aforementioned "boring old Denon" - now much more appreciated for its uncomplicated and steadfast nature.

Hope your experience is better, Montycat!

 

[Montycat]

So, here's another chapter:

After balancing the tone arm and then doing extensive testing I've determined that the only way I can totally eliminate this "looping" (where it skips backward repeatedly) is to have the antiskate on zero and have the counterweight screwed all the way onto the tonearm, literally as far as it can go. This means actually removing the little plastic number gauge thing from the counterweight so I can screw the thing on even farther.

This bizarre setup totally fixes the looping problem. If I adjust any aspect, the looping returns. Oh, and the side effect is that if I have it set up that way, the tone arm can no longer return.

So... wondering if maybe the antiskate mechanism was damaged in some way? Boy is this thing beautiful, but had to sadly unplug it and re-instate the aforementioned "boring old Denon" - now much more appreciated for its uncomplicated and steadfast nature.

Hope your experience is better, Montycat!

Well now it sounds like you are tracking at an exceptionally high force of likely grams more than optimal for your cartridge. This is why I asked how much tracking force you were using to which you have a kind of non answer of "As far as tracking force, I've literally tried every setting from very light to as heavy as possible with no noticeable difference either way".

That's not really how it should be done. The 4760-DE you have should be in the range of 2 to 4 grams.

If you don't have a digital scale here is a pretty good description of how to set tracking force:

How to balance your tonearm: A step-by-step guide

Often overlooked, balancing your tonearm correctly is about the single most important adjustment you can make to how your turntable sounds.

thevinylfactory.com

Anti skate or lack of it should have nothing to do with this.

 

[Growcho]

Yeah, I'm aware that it's not ideal When I said there was no noticeable difference between tracking force settings, I hadn't yet noticed that while increasing tracking force didn't eliminate the looping it DID lessen it. I started noticing that the more weight I added (and the less antiskate), the less skips.

This finally led to the aforementioned "counterweight screwed all the way in/antiskate at zero" method. As nutty as that method is, though, I DID try about every level of tracking force *below* that - starting at 1.5 and moving up in small increments - and nothing worked. Hopefully that's clearer and thanks for the help!

 

[Montycat]

It's better but still not clear. Did you actually figure out how many grams of tracking force you are actually using? Did you try to follow the instructions at the link?

Just cranking the counterweight in and out is not a good idea.

 

[Growcho]

Yes, I started there - well before I posted here. I'm *definitely* not saying user error is impossible lol but I'm reasonably confident I know how to balance a tonearm and I am definitely aware of the correct tracking force settings for my stylus. Repeated testing seems to indicate something amiss that "the correct tracking/antiskate settings" don't resolve. At least that's how I'm seeing it so far.

Since I don't have a digital scale it is of course very likely my tracking force is not perfectly accurate. But given that I've tried every counterweight/antiskate combo setting possible now, I guess I'm assuming I must have tried the correct one at some point, right? But totally interested in what I might be missing here. Thanks again!