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Pioneer RT-909 Trouble

As for the foil, that's what I thought, but the manual wasn't very clear on it. I have a few 7" reels with foil that I put on loop occasionally. Just switch on repeat, hit play, collapse into a chair and listen to the nonstop Beatles! :music:

Actually, you don't need to press the Repeat button. The deck will auto-reverse when the head contacts the foil whether the button is pressed or not. Pressing Repeat will put the deck into continuous mode, causing the deck to loop. (The trigger is the counter hitting 0000.)

Regarding the "triangle", those should be "-" or "+". The display normally looks like this:

Nice job getting your 909 up and running, and Rich, you continue to amaze. :thmbsp:
 
This troubleshooting thread was awesome, it kept me on the edge of my seat at times. Really tense. Glad it had a happy ending.

@pustelniakr you are one awesome pastor.
@snaliman enjoy your great deck.
 
Leave it to a RT 909 thread to get me to log in again.

You've got yourself a fine machine and i'm glad you got it working right again. A few years ago, Rich and Markthefixer no doubt got tired of me asking questions on how to get mine running again. I eventually succeeded and it's been running smooth ever since. I've even taken it a few steps further by building a wireless remote for it and fitting a variable bias control through the push button bias switch.

In the case of the NAB hubs, you can also look for adjustable clamp ones made by AKAI and Revox. (Though the AKAI's seem to be more pricey than the TEAC/Tascam ones.) The original Pioneer ones are nice, but don't hold very tight without modification and are often broken today.
 
The work in this thread provoked me to pull my headless RT-909 from my main rig, where it has been occupying an otherwise big empty space. I had pulled the heads from this machine, which was part of my "awaiting repair & restoration" inventory, so I could send the heads in for re-lapping, to put into a machine I was restoring for a client, at the time. I wanted to continue working on the client machine while I waited for the re-lapped heads. When I installed the newly re-lapped heads in the client machine, I took the heads from that one and sent them in for re-lapping, to put back into my machine.

As it turned out, the heads from the client machine were too far gone for successful re-lapping, so I had to buy new. I took the new heads and stashed them in my RT-909 parts & caps kit, and, since I already had a sweet, completely restored RT-909 in my main rig, I postponed the installation for, as it turned out, several years.

I was left behind by my engineering job (moved away and invited me to go, but I did not wish to move). Instead, I went back to school to learn something new: the law. Meanwhile, I did little in the way of audio restoration, but I did obtain a paralegal degree (graduated with a 4.0 average).

Some time back, a fellow AKr besought me for a restored RT-909, and successfully talked me out of the restored one that was in my main rig at the time. It left a big hole, which I filled with the headless one. There it has sat, for years, looking at me with those big puppy-dog eyes. I had forgotten what was wrong with her, other than her heads were missing. The process in this thread provoked me to take her out, to do some comparative resistance measurements. When snailman's machine started singing again, I picked up my headless RT-909 and started to put her back into my main rig, and she got very agitated, and started grabbing onto the bench, and doorways, and whatnot, trying to keep me from putting her back in there, in her own non-functional state.

Needless to say, since she was already on the bench and open, I might as well put her new heads in, and see if I couldn't get her to sing. She is doing just that, as I write this. You would not believe the look in her vintage blue fluoroscan eyes, as she sings to some Jean Luc Ponte, "A Taste for Passion."

I did not adjust the heads. I just put them in as her old ones had been set (you can do that with this head-block). Her transport has been completely disassembled, cleaned, lubed, reassembled, and adjusted. Someone had replaced her belt with a substandard one, and had lost the capstan thrust bearings (nylon), and replaced them with over-sized metal ones (bad mojo). She now has a supple OEM belt, and new nylon thrust bearings, to go with her front-side work. She also would not erase during record. That turned out to be a dirty pair of "Record Mode" switches. She also had gummy pinch rollers, an apparent genetic disorder in her family. She now has brand new OEM ones that I had bulk-purchased while Pioneer still had them (some things I do are somewhat wise).

She is now fully functional, but she is not done yet, not by a long shot. She is going to get the full treatment at Rich's Restoration Spa (AZ Silvemine). I even bought her a full complement of Elna Silmic-II and Nichicon Muse caps (121 of them, on 8 circuit boards). I must say, if she sounds this good now, she will bring tears to my eyes, to match hers, when she is done. Cosmetically, she is a real looker. I intend to turn her into a full-up time machine.

How was I able to go so long without those big silver reels spinning before my eyes and without the sweet sound of my special mix tapes? I don't know, but those days are already beginning to fade into memory...

Enjoy,
Rich P

PS, yes, I am going to adjust her new heads, and the record/play circuitry to match. I am going to wait until the recap is done first. The alignment is really quite reasonable already.

It feels good to get the restoration bench up and running again. I have ripped up my lab, and laid it back down, in proper form for doing good work, no longer cramped for space. In the last couple of months, a Pioneer SPEC-1, a SPEC-2, two PL-630s, a Nikko Alpha-II, and a Technics SL-1100A have all seen the light of a new day. I will say this, however, "I will no longer accumulate 18-month+ backlogs, that make me feel like I'm chained to this bench." Now that I'm a freelance paralegal, and otherwise semi-retired, this work is for fun and enjoyment...PERIOD.
 
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Rich,

You are certainly an asset to both our hobby and our group here. Thank you so much for all your contributions and assistance to others you have freely given.

Dave :music:
 
Rich,

You are certainly an asset to both our hobby and our group here. Thank you so much for all your contributions and assistance to others you have freely given.

100% agreed. Rich, your knowledge has saved many 909's, and your restoration guide is quite helpful, to say the least. (although the phrase "pretty, brushed aluminum paperweight" makes me cringe, especially after my own close call!)

Glad to hear you got your own 909 up and running!. :thmbsp:
pustelniakr said:
How was I able to go so long without those big silver reels spinning before my eyes and without the sweet sound of my special mix tapes?
Ever since I first heard mine, I was hooked. :music: Between how awesome it sounds (major, major, MAJOR understatement!), how beautiful it looks in a dimly lit room, and how convenient it is to to throw on a tape and relax, I don't think I could go back to just vinyl, cassettes and FM! The month it took to get mine singing again wasn't pleasant, but well worth the wait.
 
My 909 Capstan motor also stopped working (IC21 Failure) because of excessive voltage caused by a shorted transistor in the 24 volt regulator.
The 24 Volt is ok now but I am still worried because the datasheet from IC21 clearly says that 18 Volt is the maximum voltage allowed!!!!
I am planning to put an extra 7818 regulator in the path, any comments on that?

Regards John
 
My 909 Capstan motor also stopped working (IC21 Failure) because of excessive voltage caused by a shorted transistor in the 24 volt regulator.

First off, where did you get your replacement IC21? From a parts unit, or somewhere else?

The 24 Volt is ok now but I am still worried because the datasheet from IC21 clearly says that 18 Volt is the maximum voltage allowed!!!!
I am planning to put an extra 7818 regulator in the path, any comments on that?

As for the regulator, this is a bad idea.
The 909 already limits the voltage to this IC, via ZD21.
If an overvoltage from the 24v regulator killed IC21, then it is possible that ZD21 & R29 have also been damaged:
Excessive voltage could have take out the chip's local supply regulator, ZD21, a 250 mW, 15V zener. if that is true, R29 (680 ohm 1/4 W resistor) must also be checked.

The voltage supplied to IC21 can be measured as follows:
Measure the voltage across ZD21 on the capstan motor assembly. It should be in the neighborhood of 15V (definitely not more than 18V). I don't remember the zener voltage for that part. I want to make sure that the unobtainium chip, IC21 is powered properly. You do not need to have the tension roller arms off of their rests. Just power up the unit.

You can derive the voltage, and measure it safely, by measuring the voltage on the cathode (+) to middle of D229 (-). Then measure the voltage on the anode (+) to the middle of D229 (-). Subtract the anode voltage from the cathode voltage. That is the voltage supplied to IC21 (the voltage across ZD21).
 
Thanks for your feedback all, i love this forum and we share a great hobby!
In my opinion ZD21 zener is applied only to give a reference voltage to pin 5 (IC21), this voltage
is outputted on pin 3 to the FG sensor.
Pin 4, referenced in the datasheet as (+ GND)(same like VCC right) is still getting 24 Volts while VCC
is not allowed more then 18 Volts max..
Maybe I am stupid or really miss something here?
The zener and the 680 ohm resistor still measured good!
For all of you looking for the motor control chip, here in the Netherlands we have a very nice electronic shop
with vintage chips and they still have them on stock (nos).
http://www.electro-andijk.nl/index.php/winkel-2/electronica/ic/ic-en-ic-voetjes/m51970l-ic-detail
if you have trouble ordering I will try to help you out guys, for hobby sake..

Regards John
 
Rereading Pustelniakr's reply over and over, feeling the truth must be there...I will try this measurement method but feedback still welcome!
 
To me, it looks like a simple zener based voltage regulator, but I could be wrong.
(Says the guy who forgot to reinstall mica insulators, thus creating an entire month of headaches for both Rich and myself)

Given that Rich has been working on these units, (and electronics in general) for a lot longer than I have, I'm going to go with his interpretation on this one.

If nothing else, the engineers at Pioneer wouldn't have designed the 909 with an overvoltage condition on an essential IC.
IC21 failure would be a lot more common if that were the case.

Either way, I hope my input's been helpful to you. Now get that 909 singing again! :biggrin:
 
Even though the datasheet is kinda confusing (to me) I rest my case because like you said failures would be more common
if the engineers made a big mistake like that.
Zener measured fine but under voltage the voltage was far too low (680 ohm ok) so I will replace that 16 Volt 500mw diode..
C25 I will change to 10u 25 Volt instead of the 16Volt now, too critical for my taste.
Also the 24V darlington transistor was replaced by a Russian substitute 8 amps instead of 4 amps (KT829A on Ebay).
Yes we all make mistakes, I guess Rich was not amused with this one Haha.:whip:
Before its singing again its the end of the summer I am afraid, completely overhauling the 909, recapping, head relapping. resoldering
every joint, new brakes+tensionarms rebuild and finally a complete adjustment with a brandnew testtape, I love this baby...
Thx again guys! :beerchug:
 
I know that this is an old thread.. but AN6251 can be found, and in quantities.. for about ten bucks a pop. Just sayin'. An auto reverse transport logic control IC (Matsushita) also used in Technics RS-1700 and others. Your 909 may not be the door stop you thought it was. No capstan? Q209 base conducting on power up? Burning up Q211 and Q212? Hmmmmm.... I joined this forum tonight after I just couldn't stand it anymore. I know that I just painted a target on my back. Fire away. LOL! I am NOT trolling.. just chiming in. Rabbi Rich, you are the man. You have given so much to the fans of this one deck.. I have wanted this machine since 1979.. I bought a non functional deck this past week. I knew I was in for all of it.. your restoration guide is nothing but a labor of love and truly priceless. The micro switches.. the white lithium grease.. the bad transistors .. I know I can't be the only silent follower.. My first 909, and because of you, I was able to order the parts and materials for the expected repairs before the deck even arrived. What a great world we live in. God bless. -Jody
 
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