Pioneer SA-9100 AMP Rebuild x2

[pauls1]

I have two of these to do, both power up but will not come out of protection so I have decided that both of these are going to get a major overhaul/ rebuild.

There are a few previous SA-9100 rebuild threads or atleast part rebuild threads but I don't think we have ended up with a current up to date BOM list that is correct. Hopefully by the time I have completed this first SA-9100 and with a little help from the expert and experienced akers we will have that.


Below is the list of parts I plan to use for these boards, all parts from mouser.com

*************SEE POST No.9 FOR THE FULL PARTS LIST USED FOR THESE TWO REBUILDS***************

 

[dnpainting]

WAIT FOR MARK!!!!!

I would not tear into these until you solve the protection issue first, otherwise, how would you know if you accidently installed something incorrectly if the original protection issue is still there. I shot gunned my 9100 and it made for a lot more troubleshooting than probably needed had I fixed the original issue first.

But again, I'd wait for Mark!

Just my $0.02

 

[pauls1]

WAIT FOR MARK!!!!!

I would not tear into these until you solve the protection issue first, otherwise, how would you know if you accidently installed something incorrectly if the original protection issue is still there. I shot gunned my 9100 and it made for a lot more troubleshooting than probably needed had I fixed the original issue first.

But again, I'd wait for Mark!

Just my $0.02

Good advice, I agree. MARK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last night I rebuilt both the amp boards (AWH023s) using the parts list in my opening post. This is what I found on the left board that may well be why this amp was in protection. Q10 2SC1079 completely shorted and conducting from Base to Emitter! R32 10ohm 1watt badly burnt and Open Circuit. Also one of the two 2SC1451 was OC. Not sure which one as I removed these both first before testing.

Just for clarity, the parts lists I am going to use for this rebuild are not of my own creation (you all knew that anyway, right!) but are lists that I have taken from previous SA-9100 threads. All the lists I am going to use have been put up by others and verified by Mark (Markthefixer) or created by him. So fingers crossed there should not be any errors.

So now do I power up on the DBT? 100 Watt bulb?
I have tripple checked that all components are fitted correctly and that there are no solder bridges, surely this ones ready for power!

 

[Fat Fingers]

What fun! I've been enjoying my recently refurbished 9100 a great deal! Now I'm tearing into a Sansui AU-717, now it was a mess.

I look forward to your updates Paul.

 

[SolutionRoom]

Having successfully rebuilt 2 of these recently, I 2nd DNPAINTING's recommendation to fix any existing known issue PRIOR to conducting any parts replacement across the board. But it sounds like it may be too late for that methodology. In any event, you will get it going, it just may take a bit more work as you begin to replace various components that nay or may not be bad. It is not a difficult amp to work on in general. Some of the areas are tight as Hell to get to, but the layout is pretty straight-forward.

Additionally, I would have ensured that the Power Board was putting out the correct voltages, before rebuilding any Amp boards. And that the Protection Board was doing its job. If the Power and Prot Boards aren't doing their jobs, then your efforts on the amp boards may get ruined upon power up. Checking voltages FIRST is crucial.

 

[markthefixer]

I don't think you have my final list, because I just checked the spreadsheet and it isn't finished... there are gaps and fill ins and notes to do etc...

you jumped before I could respond, q8 and q9 is an issue I hadn't BEGUN to dig into. With regards to speed and gain. CRITICAL.

posting a list on 8/5 and then announcing a fait accompli LESS THAN 48 hours later is NOT calculated to appeal to my better nature - I have gotten HIT with an unexpected drain on my time the last few days.

go look up the q8 and q9 you used, THEN compare them to the c2690/a1220 ... major differences. and it aint volts amps or watts. nor is it case or layout.

I literally cannot, I am in flat out emergency mode, and only took time away from those tasks to stuff some lunch in my phiz... I KNOW what YOU will find, what I have to figure out is what those difference will do to the sa-9100 amp.

 

[pauls1]

Additionally, I would have ensured that the Power Board was putting out the correct voltages, before rebuilding any Amp boards. And that the Protection Board was doing its job. If the Power and Prot Boards aren't doing their jobs, then your efforts on the amp boards may get ruined upon power up. Checking voltages FIRST is crucial.

Thanks SolutionRoom. I would have done as you and dnpainting have suggested if I had not had badly burned (one completely oc) resistors on one of the amp boards. This amp had been worked on before by someone without success (not that the seller let me know that when I bought it from him!) and had already had Q4 replaced with what looks like a TO-220 which is stamped BF869.
I did not want to put anymore power through the amp and possibly do more damage so decided then that I would rebuild both amp boards, power and protection boards before powering up. I know this is not the recommended way and can be risky as a lot has been changed before power up and that is why I'm triple checking everything I do.
I have not powered this up and pretty quickly after I rebuilt both amp boards made that decision. Too risky as you implied and would probably lead to me having to re-do some of what I have already done on the amp boards as it is very likely there are problems elsewhere.

I don't think you have my final list, because I just checked the spreadsheet and it isn't finished... there are gaps and fill ins and notes to do etc...

I don't yet but hopefully by the time this rebuild is complete we will and Marty can add it to his list. If it's ok with you I'll post board by board as I go and mark my first post on each board as a draft list until you are happy. Once the amp is complete and hopefully singing like a bird then you can post an up to date BOM. How does that sound?

you jumped before I could respond, q8 and q9 is an issue I hadn't BEGUN to dig into. With regards to speed and gain. CRITICAL.

I couldn't see anything noticeable on the sheets that looked like it might be a problem BUT that's the great thing about having yours and the other guys imput. Shall I swap Q8 and Q9 out and edit my original post? I have seen both options for Q8 and Q9 on AWH023 recommended in previous threads on this amp.

posting a list on 8/5 and then announcing a fait accompli LESS THAN 48 hours later is NOT calculated to appeal to my better nature - I have gotten HIT with an unexpected drain on my time the last few days.

If anything looks incorrect then I would appreciate the help on this!

Ok Mark maybe I should have made it clear the list was a draft. Now corrected!

 

[pauls1]

I have completed the first SA-9100. Pretty much a full recap and transistor apart from the big 15000 caps. Everything went well although a couple of the boards were a PITA to get to or work on. The switch board AWS-040 was tough as the 4 caps (yes only 4) were in a real tight spot that was difficult to get the soldering iron to but it got done, very carefully!

aws040 before


aws040 after


The other tricky ones were the AWF007 equalizer amps x 2. There is very little space between these two boards as they have short wires connecting the two. It was real tight to get components in and out but with patience and care it went well. Ideally you would want to seperate these boards to make the job easy but I didn't want to try to remove any pins.

awf007 tight to work on

completed and refitted


The amp is now looking and sounding fantastic. Idle and bias measurement are perfect 25mv and 0 to 0.1mv. A couple of the power supply voltages (awr032) are 1 or 2 vdc higher than spec 44vdc instead of 42vdc, same on the +ve and -ve sides. I may try and get these closer to spec. The other thing that is strange is that the relay always clicks after 2 seconds, should this be approx 5 seconds?




I'll post up the voltages along with everything that's been replaced during this rebuild and a few more photos.

 

[pauls1]

Below is the parts list I used for this rebuild. All of this parts list was put together after trawling through previous AK threads/ posts/ lists on sa-9100 rebuilds. Thanks guys!
I did make changes to my original list after Marks (markthefixer) advice previously in this thread and have used a LOT of Marks previous lists and past recommendations on this rebuild but have also used parts listed by other ak'ers as I could not find a complete current list.

I have been using the amp lots over the last week and can honestly say it sounds fantastic, probably better than it did when new! I also cleaned all the pots and switches with deoxit and then sprayed them with switch lube. Hopefully this amp will now sing for a long long time.


AWF-007 Equalizer Amp x 2

AWF-007 c1 2.2 25 cssa - 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
AWF-007 c4 47 25 cea - 47 35 647-UPW1V470MED
AWF-007 c7 3.3 50 cea - 3.3 50 647-UPW1H3R3MDD
AWF-007 c9 22 25 cssa - 22 50 647-UKL1H220MEDANA
AWF-007 c10 470 6 cea - 470 6.3 647-UPW0J471MPD
AWF-007 c? 2.2 25 cssa - 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
AWF-007 q1 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWF-007 q2 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWF-007 q3 2sc1313 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWF-007 q4 2sc1313 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWF-007 q5 2sa726 - 512-KSA992FBU



AWG-018 Control Amp

AWG-018 c1 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWG-018 c2 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWG-018 c7 47 16 cea - 47 16 647-UPW1C470MDD
AWG-018 c8 47 16 cea - 47 16 647-UPW1C470MDD
AWG-018 c9 3.3 25 cssa - 3.3 50 647-UKL1H3R3MDDANA
AWG-018 c10 3.3 25 cssa 3.3 50 647-UKL1H3R3MDDANA
AWG-018 c11 47 16 cea - 47 16 647-UPW1C470MDD
AWG-018 c12 47 16 cea - 47 16 647-UPW1C470MDD
AWG-018 c13 4.7 25 cea - 4.7 25 647-UPW1E4R7MDD
AWG-018 c14 4.7 25 cea - 4.7 25 647-UPW1E4R7MDD
AWG-018 c17 10 25 csza - 10 25 647-UKL1E100KDDANA
AWG-018 c18 10 25 csza - 10 25 647-UKL1E100KDDANA
AWG-018 c21 100 16 cea - 100 25 647-UPW1E101MED
AWG-018 c22 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3 (not present on my board)
AWG-018 c23 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWG-018 c24 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWG-018 c25 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWG-018 c26 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWG-018 q1 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWG-018 q2 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWG-018 q3 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWG-018 q4 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWG-018 q5 2sc1312 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWG-018 q6 2sc1312 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWG-018 q7 2sc1312 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWG-018 q8 2sc1312 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWG-018 q9 2sc1478 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWG-018 q10 2sc1478 - 512-KSC1845FTA



AWK-021 Filter amp

AWK-021 c1 4.7 10 cssa - 4.7 25 647-UKL1E4R7KDDANA
AWK-021 c2 4.7 10 cssa - 4.7 25 647-UKL1E4R7KDDANA
AWK-021 c5 47 10 cea - 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
AWK-021 c6 47 10 cea - 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
AWK-021 c7 4.7 10 cssa - 4.7 25 647-UKL1E4R7KDDANA
AWK-021 c8 4.7 10 cssa - 4.7 25 647-UKL1E4R7KDDANA
AWK-021 c11 22 10 cea - 22 10 647-UPW1A220MDD
AWK-021 c12 22 10 cea - 22 10 647-UPW1A220MDD
AWK-021 q1 2sc1345 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWK-021 q2 2sc1345 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWK-021 q3 2sc1345 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWK-021 q4 2sc1345 - 512-KSC1845FTA



AWH-023 Power amp board (one of two)

AWH-023 c1 0.22 25 cssa - 0.22 50 667-ECQ-V1H224JL3
AWH-023 c2 0.47 25 cssa - 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
AWH-023 c3 33 16 cea - 33 25 647-UPW1E330MDD
AWH-023 c6 33 16 cea - 33 25 647-UPW1E330MDD
AWH-023 c12 470 6 cea - 470 6.3 647-UPW0J471MPD
AWH-023 q1 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWH-023 q2 2sa774 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWH-023 q3 2sc869 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWH-023 q4 2sc869 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWH-023 q5 2sa628 - 512-KSA992FBU
AWH-023 q6 2sc1451 - 512-KSC3503DSTU
AWH-023 q7 2sc1451 - 512-KSC3503DSTU
AWH-023 q8 2sd358 - 512-KSC2690AYS
AWH-023 q9 2sb528 - 512-KSA1220AYS
AWH-023 q10 2sc1079 - 863-MJ21194G
AWH-023 q11 2sa679 - 863-MJ21193G
AWH-023 vr1 ACP-020-0 Semi-Fixed (330-B) 652-3296P-1-501LF
AWH-023 vr2 ACP-019-0 Semi Fixed (100-B) 652-3386H-1-101LF
TO3 mica insulators for q10 & q11- 534-4636
AWH-023 r23, r24, r31 10ohm 1watt - 1 watt 10 ohm metal oxide 660-MO1CT52R100J



AWM-025 Protection board

AWM-025 c1 0.22 10 cssa - 0.22 50 667-ECQ-V1H224JL3
AWM-025 c2 0.22 10 cssa - 0.22 50 667-ECQ-V1H224JL3
AWM-025 c3 cea 330 6 cea - 330 6.3 647-UPW0J331MED
AWM-025 c4 cea 330 6 cea - 330 6.3 647-UPW0J331MED
AWM-025 c5 4.7 25 cea - 4.7 25 647-UPW1E4R7MDD
AWM-025 c6 100 16 cea - 100 25 647-UPW1E101MED
AWM-025 q1 2sc869 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025 q2 2sc869 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025 q3 2sc945 - 512-KSD1616ALBU
AWM-025 q4 2sc945 - 512-KSD1616ALBU
AWM-025 q5 2sa733 - 512-KSA733CLTA
AWM-025 q6 2sc945 - 512-KSD1616ALBU
AWM-025 q7 2sc1384 - 512-KSC2690AYS

Diode for relay flyback between pins 9 and 10 - 512-1N4004
pin 9 gets Anode, pin 10 gets Cathode (banded end)



AWR-031 Power Supply Circuit-A Ass'y

AWR-031 c5 470 63 ceb - 470 63 647-TVX1J471MCD
AWR-031 c6 470 63 ceb - 470 63 647-TVX1J471MCD



AWR-032 Power Supply Circuit-B Ass'y

AWR-032 c1 100 63 cea - 100 63 647-UPW1J101MPD6
AWR-032 c2 100 63 cea - 100 63 647-UPW1J101MPD6
AWR-032 c5 10 25 cea - 10 35 647-UPW1V100MDD
AWR-032 c6 10 35 cea - 10 50 647-UPW1H100MDD
AWR-032 c7 10 50 cea - 10 50 647-UPW1H100MDD
AWR-032 c8 10 50 cea - 10 50 647-UPW1H100MDD
AWR-032 c9 10 50 cea - 10 50 647-UPW1H100MDD
AWR-032 c12 47 25 cea - 47 35 647-UPW1V470MED
AWR-032 c13 47 25 cea - 47 35 647-UPW1V470MED
AWR-032 c14 33 25 cea - 33 25 647-UPW1E330MDD
AWR-032 c15 33 25 cea - 33 25 647-UPW1E330MDD
AWR-032 c20 10 50 cea - 10 50 647-UPW1H100MDD
AWR-032 q1 2sd313 - 512-KSC2073TU
AWR-032 q2 2sb507 - 512-KSA940TU
AWR-032 q3 2sc945 - 512-KSC2383YTA
AWR-032 q4 2sa720 - 512-KSA1013YBU
AWR-032 q5 2sc1318 - 512-KSC2690AYS
AWR-032 q6 2sa720 - 512-KSA1220AYS
AWR-032 q7 2sc1318 - 512-KSC2690AYS
AWR-032 q8 2sa720 - 512-KSA1220AYS

AWR-032 r12 390ohm 0.5watt - 390ohm 1watt 660-MOS1CT52R391J
AWR-032 r13 390ohm 0.5watt - 390ohm 1watt 660-MOS1CT52R391J
AWR-032 d1 wz-130 - 512-1N5243B
AWR-032 d2 wz-130 - 512-1N5243B


AWS-039 Switch-B Ass'y

AWS-039 c1 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWS-039 c2 1 25 cssa - 1 50 667-ECQ-V1H105JL3
AWS-039 c5 10 16 cea - 10 16 647-UPW1C100MDD
AWS-039 c6 10 16 cea - 10 16 647-UPW1C100MDD
AWS-039 q1 2sc1313 - 512-KSC1845FTA
AWS-039 q2 2sc1313 - 512-KSC1845FTA


AWS-040 Switch-C Ass'y

AWS-040 c9 0.47 10 cssa - 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
AWS-040 c10 0.47 10 cssa - 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
AWS-040 c11 0.47 10 cssa - 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3
AWS-040 c12 0.47 10 cssa - 0.47 50 667-ECQ-V1H474JL3


Misc...

Film bypass caps for main caps - 2.2uf 250v 667-ECQ-E2225KB
Power light bulb.....8v 50ma 4.12mm

Not replaced...

Big filters 15000uf 50v - 36DY153F050BM2A

 

[david winter]

Little correction: TO3 mica insulators are 534-4636, not 8534-4636.

 

[pauls1]

Little correction: TO3 mica insulators are 534-4636, not 8534-4636.

Thanks. Now corrected in my list.

 

[Fat Fingers]

Just fantastic Paul, I love the photographs. My 9100 is my everyday amp despite having done a couple others, there is just something about how it sounds. Strong bass and the vocals are so distinct. Separation is wonderful. What more can be said? I think that the 9100 may be the greatest bargain in vintage audio.

 

[pauls1]

Just fantastic Paul, I love the photographs. My 9100 is my everyday amp despite having done a couple others, there is just something about how it sounds. Strong bass and the vocals are so distinct. Separation is wonderful. What more can be said? I think that the 9100 may be the greatest bargain in vintage audio.

Thanks Tom!
I agree this amp sounds amazing and I'm really enjoying my music right now with this at the heart of my setup. I have my HPM-150's connected up and WOW does it sound good...

I'm going to start on the other 9100 tonight. That is going to get the same treatment this one did. Not sure if I'm going to keep the two so may let someone else enjoy the second when it's done.

Few more pics....
AWH-025 Protection Rebuilt


All done.......


[

 

[markthefixer]

protection changes
simplified, and a bit less expensive - buy a992's and c1845's in bulk
(~ $6 for 100, instead of about $0.25 ea ($6 is 24 of them otherwise) if you are going to do more pioneers)

AWM-025-A Q1 2SC857K 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q2 2SC857K 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q3 2SC945 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q4 2SC945 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q5 2SA733 512-KSA992FBU
AWM-025-A Q6 2SC945 512-KSC2383YTA
AWM-025-A Q7 2SC1384 512-KSC2690AYS

 

[calman46]

I'm working on a SA 9100 . The equalizer board is the AWF-007-B version. This board version is on one of the full schematics in the SM (AK data base) . Its very different from the one with the foil side diagram.
EQUALIZER BOARD AWF-007-B Original cap values and voltages
C1 2.2uf /25v
C4 47uf/25v
C7 3.3uf/ 50v
C9 10uf/ 6v solid tantalum
C10 470uf/6.3v
C15 2.2uf/ 25v
C16 22uf/ 25

 

[zebulon1]

Those recommendations for the filter caps are spot on. Expensive though. The issue with a cheaper solution is the clearance to the bonnet. A shallow cap is needed. Nothing cheap is available with a proper clearance.
I think I can drill out the solder terminal on the originals and use those as the ring terminals.
I'm going to add the 2.2/250 by-pass caps as well. Maybe on separate terminals. The protection board sits over/under the Filters so clearance is going to be tight.