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Please help me choose a 1st TT
- Thread starter droggo
- Start date
leepal
Active Member
I've never heard any of these turntable's...but instincts say the Technics would probably be the best bet.
The review I read of the Audio Technica was pretty damning, ie. a clone of the Technics SL-1200 Mk2 but nowhere near as good. And, as already mentioned, the B&O may be good but the choice of cartridges/stylus is limited and probably expensive.
The review I read of the Audio Technica was pretty damning, ie. a clone of the Technics SL-1200 Mk2 but nowhere near as good. And, as already mentioned, the B&O may be good but the choice of cartridges/stylus is limited and probably expensive.
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
Out of the ones listed, I'd say go for the Technics only because it has the largest user base of the three which means parts will be readily available for it for some time to come.
If you can come up with a little more scratch, you might want to look out for a used 1200 instead which is a better table.
If you can come up with a little more scratch, you might want to look out for a used 1200 instead which is a better table.
Andy_H
Behind the Wall of Sleep
Allow me to cast one more vote for the Technics SL-1800. It should be quite rugged and run strong for years to come; if not replacement parts and repair service oughtn't be too hard to come by. And as others have already said, it offers a huge range in terms of cartridge compatibility options.
I would strongly advise staying away from this Audio-Technica or any other contemporary turntables with things like USB and preamps built in. I guess I am a minimalist in most regards, but I really do agree with the theory that adding any such bells and whistles designed to appeal to the mass market with convenience and "cool factor" just detracts from the actual performance of the turntable. Since these decks are entry level and built to a low price point, I think that in order to include such extra convenience features the manufacturer has to cut costs on the other aspects such as the motor, the arm, the bearings, etc - in other words the essential basic parts of any turntable.
I don't have any direct experience with B&O, but I would have to agree with all the others who suggested to avoid this one. I'm sure it's a well-engineered turntable but the relative rarity/complexity and limited parts availability (at least compared to Technics) of B&O gear could be a real headache down the road.
Just my humble opinion, $0.02 worth, etc, and I hope I haven't been too long-winded or redundant with what everyone else has said.
I would strongly advise staying away from this Audio-Technica or any other contemporary turntables with things like USB and preamps built in. I guess I am a minimalist in most regards, but I really do agree with the theory that adding any such bells and whistles designed to appeal to the mass market with convenience and "cool factor" just detracts from the actual performance of the turntable. Since these decks are entry level and built to a low price point, I think that in order to include such extra convenience features the manufacturer has to cut costs on the other aspects such as the motor, the arm, the bearings, etc - in other words the essential basic parts of any turntable.
I don't have any direct experience with B&O, but I would have to agree with all the others who suggested to avoid this one. I'm sure it's a well-engineered turntable but the relative rarity/complexity and limited parts availability (at least compared to Technics) of B&O gear could be a real headache down the road.
Just my humble opinion, $0.02 worth, etc, and I hope I haven't been too long-winded or redundant with what everyone else has said.
Thanks everybody! I stopped by the local vinyl shop (lvs?) and ended up throwing down some cash on the technics sl-1800. After getting a closer look at it today, I feel very happy and satisfied with my choice. I'm grateful for your help. This is a very nice forum.
I actually thought about buying both but $ is a little tight. For a grad student, post xmas/nye always is
maybe i'll just save up for that 1200 instead.
I actually thought about buying both but $ is a little tight. For a grad student, post xmas/nye always is
maybe i'll just save up for that 1200 instead.
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Thanks everybody! I stopped by the local vinyl shop (lvs?) and ended up throwing down some cash on the technics sl-1800. After getting a closer look at it today, I feel very happy and satisfied with my choice. I'm grateful for your help. This is a very nice forum.
I actually thought about buying both but $ is a little tight. For a grad student, post xmas/nye always is
Good for you! I know you'll be happy with it. And don't hesitate to call on us for setup advice, etc.
By the way, is it the quartz Mk2 or the servo Mk1?
John
Thanks, John! It's the servo. Just picked it up today, actually. What a solid looking tt. There is one thing that is really bugging me though and I'm not sure what to do about it. Basically just walking around my living room will cause the needle to jump around and skip. My first thought was that the needle didn't have enough tracking force but it's already maxed out at 1.5g (using a shure pro-r cartridge). I did a couple of searches and some people said to tighten a screw in top of the tone arm. The only screw I see is the one that holds the cartridge tight; i tightened it and it seemed to help maybe just a tiny bit. It still skips when I walk around my living room though! The tt is currently sitting on top of a dvd player, which is placed in an entertainment center, which stands on carpet. Any advice for solving this problem? I hope I didn't buy a faulty machine - I doubt this is the case though.
Balifly
Listening
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Ideally the turntable should be sitting on its own surface, not stacked on anything. It's likely that a pretty lightweight DVD player is a pretty unsatisfactory location but you have to deal with what you have at the moment.
As far as tightening screws goes, I think what you read were recommendations to tighten the screw at the top of the tonearm pivot. This would be based on the assumption that the screw was loose and allowing the arm to wiggle around in the pivot. I wouldn't go tightening that without first ascertaining that there was indeed movement in the pivot.
Grab the pivot by the sort of hockey puck thingy and move it up and down, side to side and back and forth. A tiny bit of movement is to be expected but a lot is not so good.
Also, you might want to recheck your tracking force. Move the weight (not just the index ring) back to the "0". If after doing that the arm floats horizontally then it was set correctly. If the arm is nose high when set to zero then you had too little tracking force. That would cause it to skip.
John
As far as tightening screws goes, I think what you read were recommendations to tighten the screw at the top of the tonearm pivot. This would be based on the assumption that the screw was loose and allowing the arm to wiggle around in the pivot. I wouldn't go tightening that without first ascertaining that there was indeed movement in the pivot.
Grab the pivot by the sort of hockey puck thingy and move it up and down, side to side and back and forth. A tiny bit of movement is to be expected but a lot is not so good.
Also, you might want to recheck your tracking force. Move the weight (not just the index ring) back to the "0". If after doing that the arm floats horizontally then it was set correctly. If the arm is nose high when set to zero then you had too little tracking force. That would cause it to skip.
John
Well, I setup the tone arm for a second time and it was still skipping too easily with only 1.5 grams of weight (the recommended max for my cart). however, going beyond that and setting it at 2 grams, the skipping became less of an issue (still there but not nearly as bad). how bad is this for my cart? will it just shorten the life of it? will it wear out my records? I apologize for these uber-newb questions
How good of a cart is the shure pro-4 anyway? It doesn't seem to be very good on the high-end, but then again, I don't quiet have to ears yet to generate such conclusions. What would you guys recommend replacing it with? I would prefer to spend between $50-$100. Someone recommended the shure m97xe, which sits nicely in my price range.
Thanks!
How good of a cart is the shure pro-4 anyway? It doesn't seem to be very good on the high-end, but then again, I don't quiet have to ears yet to generate such conclusions. What would you guys recommend replacing it with? I would prefer to spend between $50-$100. Someone recommended the shure m97xe, which sits nicely in my price range.
Thanks!
maybe this is it?:
there seems to be some sort of float design to the platter (sp?) and whatever supports it. However, the float is currently flat or dead. I would think if I could get this back into "float mode" then my foot steps wouldn't affect the skipping as easily, or at all.
is there any thing here that makes sense or am I just making stuff up?
there seems to be some sort of float design to the platter (sp?) and whatever supports it. However, the float is currently flat or dead. I would think if I could get this back into "float mode" then my foot steps wouldn't affect the skipping as easily, or at all.
is there any thing here that makes sense or am I just making stuff up?
bhundu
Addicted Member
Congratulations on the purchase. It should prove to be a mighty fine first TT.
It's going to take some time to get everything optimised. A TT is not like the majority of other stereo equipment. It's a precision instrument that requires a bit of patience and knowledge. This was the main reason CDs got a stranglehold on the market. They were just far easier to use than a TT.
It's all good though. A steep learning curve awaits but you are lucky to be in this era where the questions to your answers are a click away and we have the benefit of AK.
A few basics:
The TT needs to be "isolated" as much as possible from any floor movement or vibration. Turntable isolation usually involves placing the TT on a very heavy, sonically dead object, or mounting it to the studs on a wall shelf so it's not in contact with the floor. A sonically dead object will have a dull sound if you tap it with your knuckles. If you get a higher pitched sound, the material has less isolation properties. Imagine tapping your knuckles on a 3" thick block of granite. Now tap your knuckles on top of your DVD player or even your entertainment unit.
Playback involves a really small diamond travelling around in a really small groove. Everything has to be perfectly orientated in all planes. Up/down, left/right, back/forth. This is all measured with the direction of gravity as a reference point, ie everything must be level to start with. This is all bunched under terms like "turntable set up" and "cartridge alignment" but it gets a little more involved with terms like "azmith", "overhang", "off-set angle", "VTA", "tail-up/tail-down" etc. Printed or purchased protractors are a neccessity.
Next is to apply the correct forces. Tracking force and anti skate. TF is a big one and John (boreas) has explained how to set it using your TT. It's a good idea to get an inexpensive digital gauge that measures to 1/100th of a gram (NB: the smaller and/or thinner the gauge the better). I find it always good to use a reference tool just to confirm.
Lastly is cleanliness. Everything must be clean. The records must be free of mould, dirt, hair, dust, fingerprints and ideally have no scratches. Same goes for the stylus. Plenty of threads on "record cleaning" and "stylus cleaning" here. A few purchases may have to be made.
Well, that's the basics. Plenty more regarding maintenence and servicing. Search the old threads and don't be afraid to ask any questions. There are many here willing to help at any time of the day. I'm sure in 12 months time you will be passing your knowledge on to other first TT owners.
Good luck!
It's going to take some time to get everything optimised. A TT is not like the majority of other stereo equipment. It's a precision instrument that requires a bit of patience and knowledge. This was the main reason CDs got a stranglehold on the market. They were just far easier to use than a TT.
It's all good though. A steep learning curve awaits but you are lucky to be in this era where the questions to your answers are a click away and we have the benefit of AK.
A few basics:
The TT needs to be "isolated" as much as possible from any floor movement or vibration. Turntable isolation usually involves placing the TT on a very heavy, sonically dead object, or mounting it to the studs on a wall shelf so it's not in contact with the floor. A sonically dead object will have a dull sound if you tap it with your knuckles. If you get a higher pitched sound, the material has less isolation properties. Imagine tapping your knuckles on a 3" thick block of granite. Now tap your knuckles on top of your DVD player or even your entertainment unit.
Playback involves a really small diamond travelling around in a really small groove. Everything has to be perfectly orientated in all planes. Up/down, left/right, back/forth. This is all measured with the direction of gravity as a reference point, ie everything must be level to start with. This is all bunched under terms like "turntable set up" and "cartridge alignment" but it gets a little more involved with terms like "azmith", "overhang", "off-set angle", "VTA", "tail-up/tail-down" etc. Printed or purchased protractors are a neccessity.
Next is to apply the correct forces. Tracking force and anti skate. TF is a big one and John (boreas) has explained how to set it using your TT. It's a good idea to get an inexpensive digital gauge that measures to 1/100th of a gram (NB: the smaller and/or thinner the gauge the better). I find it always good to use a reference tool just to confirm.
Lastly is cleanliness. Everything must be clean. The records must be free of mould, dirt, hair, dust, fingerprints and ideally have no scratches. Same goes for the stylus. Plenty of threads on "record cleaning" and "stylus cleaning" here. A few purchases may have to be made.
Well, that's the basics. Plenty more regarding maintenence and servicing. Search the old threads and don't be afraid to ask any questions. There are many here willing to help at any time of the day. I'm sure in 12 months time you will be passing your knowledge on to other first TT owners.
Good luck!
bhundu
Addicted Member
The Technics guys will chime in on this one.
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
The Shure Pro-R, eh???? These days "Pro" usually means "Pro Audio". That doesn't mean radio stations. It means DJs and DJ cartridges and styli are very heavy trackers, on the order of 3 to 5 grams.
I tried to find something on it. Not a sausage. Could you take a photo of it?
John
I tried to find something on it. Not a sausage. Could you take a photo of it?
John
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Where did I get that R from? Old age sux! Yeah, when I was looking for the mythical Pro-R I came up with the Pro-4, 6, 8 and 10. The Pro-4, etc are P-mounts so your 1.5 grams of tracking force is at the upper range of what's appropriate for it. It may be a bad cartridge or, as you suggested, a problem with the suspension of the turntable.
That's outside my experience but are you saying that there isn't any "bounce" when you push down, say, on the platter?
John
Yes, that is exactly what I was trying say, boreas. So, should there be "bounce"? I guess I'm just clueless as to if "float" is even part of the design. It seems like it would be an good thing to have. Anybody know if the float can be restored or adjusted?
As far as the cartridge goes, what effect will running at 2g have (1.5g is max recommended)? What, if anything, will this do to my vinyl? If your answer is bad news, what should I try next? new cartridge? The seller said it was a new needle.
Thanks!
As far as the cartridge goes, what effect will running at 2g have (1.5g is max recommended)? What, if anything, will this do to my vinyl? If your answer is bad news, what should I try next? new cartridge? The seller said it was a new needle.
Thanks!
