• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Please help with room potential... I am a novice trying to learn as much as I can!

B

bdefanski

New Member
Hello fellow audio nuts! I tried posting this on reddit and got absolutely lambasted for so many things, with so much vitriol, simply for asking for suggestions on how to make things better. I will paste the text of that post, but first I will address one thing - I do not listen to music with the speakers set up the way they are in this photo - that was purely for presentation purposes. I move the speakers not being used out of the way when not being used, and only use one set at a time. what I'd really like is some suggestions on placement and room treatment and how to make this rig sound as good as it possibly can. I've busted my ass over the last couple of years to acquire the collection that I have which is a lot more than what is pictured.. these are just my favorite items.. but I am definitely a novice when it comes to placement and room treatment. any and all suggestions for improvement are welcome. Just please keep your overt negativity to yourself. I simply want to acquire the knowledge necessary to improve my listening experience as I still know basically nothing about optimal room conditions. for reference, the room is 12x18x8 and has terrazzo floors. I thank you all in advance! Original post follows:

Rate my rig!

None of this is super hi-end by any means, and all purchased second hand, but I love it all and I think it sounds great. Just got a new stereo rack off marketplace yesterday so I'm feeling pretty proud of it all. How do you think it all looks? Any thoughts on the components.. past experience or recommendations for modification? Appreciate any and all input, and I appreciate all of you! System is as follows:

Power amp: Adcom GFA-5400

Preamp: Rotel RX-855 stereo receiver using pre-out to the Adcom

Turntable: U-Turn Orbit Plus with Ortofon OM 20 cartridge

Cassette deck: Denon DR-M14HX

CD Player #1: California Audio Labs Icon Mkii

CD Player #2: Sony CDP-C9ESD

Network Streamer/DAC: Marantz NA7004

iMac for downloading/streaming things not accessible through the NA7004 from my DLNA server

Power conditioner: Panamax MAX 1500

Speakers:

Magnepan MMG
Martin Logan Mosaic
Vienna Acoustics Haydn

Sub: Polk Audio PSW-108

Speaker selector: Unbranded but very high quality two amp/four speaker switch unit

I have the CAL's RCA out into the Rotel, and the toslink from the Sony into the Marantz, also the USB audio from the iMac into the Marantz. I've run the digital coax from the Icon through the the Marantz but I find I like the built-in DAC better in that unit. Also, I have an Aiwa AD-WX808 that I purchased used and am waiting for new belts to arrive before I can work it into the mix and get an honest opinion on its performance.

Let me know what you all think, and if you have any opinions of the gear. First time posting in the group but I've been perusing around for some time now. Thanks everyone!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2235.jpeg
    IMG_2235.jpeg
    105.1 KB · Views: 53
Register to hide this ad
bdefanski said:
I have an area rug

under my chair but other than that, the floor is all exposed
Click to expand...

Then you have pretty much nowhere to go but up. What you're working with is possibly the worst acoustic scenario one can present if the objective is to maximize the fidelity of a 2-channel hifi stereo system. With a little time, effort and money you will experience a significant improvement in the performance of your system. I don't have time right now to go into the details, but hold tight and I'll set you on the path to get you to a better place. Until then, can you post more pictures of the room? Take pictures while standing in each corner of the room looking at the opposing corner so I can clearly see all four walls and any fixtures/furnishings.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to the AK Crew.

Sorry to hear of your
bad experience with
"reddit".
It's a site wherein
anything goes...
and it does.

AK in the other hand
is a place wherein
audio is stressed and
focused on.

In the upper right hand
corner of the AK page,
you will see "Search".
And if you type in some
leads like, "What is a
good sound room?" Or,
What creates a great
sound environment?",
you will find scads of
opinions/input that
you can read up on
past discussions dealing
with this very subject.

You are NOT the first
to make this inquiry...
nor won't be the last.

Take yer time. Read
and get caught up
on the basics in... "Preparing
an adequate sound room.


Q
 
First, there is an abundance of educational material out there that explains fundamental room acoustic theory, how it affects a hifi system and how to use acoustic treatments to ameliorate the negative acoustic elements in a "small room" (domestic living space) environment. I'll condense all of it as much as I can and leave it up to you to take a deeper dive if you see fit.

Understand that in a room with a lot of flat, hard and parallel surfaces (like your bare walls, floor and ceiling), any sound (energy) created within the room will have total freedom to reflect off of all those surfaces until it loses energy. In extreme cases, this is heard as echoes although not all echoes are created equal. In a small room, you'll typically hear what are called "flutter" echoes.

modern-physics.org

Flutter Echo | Acoustic Clarity, Sound Quality & Control

Learn about flutter echo, an acoustic issue caused by sound bouncing between parallel surfaces, affecting speech clarity and music quality in enclosed spaces.
modern-physics.org modern-physics.org


There can be variations on the sound of a flutter echo, but any time your hear additional noise after a sharp, fast, loud sound is created...such as a hand clap...you're hearing an echo in some form. These extraneous sounds/echoes will compromise the purity of the initial sound so that clarity of speech and music is compromised. And some echoes aren't as obvious as a flutter echo, but still just as harmful to fidelity. So the most important thing to consider in a room with a lot of hard, flat and parallel surfaces...like yours...is getting those reflections under control by redirecting the energy or eliminating the majority of the energy altogether. There are two ways to accomplish this...absorption and diffusion.

Between those two items, I could write paragraphs of information if you really wanted to get into the weeds. But just understand that it's much easier...and in most cases better...to use absorption as the initial step toward managing the reflections. To be clear, this does not mean you want to make all surfaces no longer reflective...which would result in a room that sounds "dead" or gives one the sensation of having congested ears when they speak or hear sounds produced in the room. All spaces have what is called a "decay" or "reverb profile" and it can be measured to determine how much reflected sound energy there is in the room. An empty gymnasium would be an example of a space with a very long decay/reverb profile and inside a closet full of hanging clothes and a carpeted floor would be an example of a space with a very short reverb/decay profile. You want some reflected energy to remain in the space, but where that reflected energy is generated is what matters.

For 2-channel hifi music playback, the areas where reflected energy will have the most adverse effect on sound quality/purity will be the "first reflection" locations...also called "early" or "primary" reflections. There are two on each sidewall, two on the ceiling and, if you're close enough to the back/rear wall (that's the wall BEHIND the listening spot...wall behind speakers is the FRONT wall), two there. The floor also has two, but how we go about dealing with reflections from the floor usually amounts to just placing a thick, plush rug in the entire area between the listening spot and speakers. The locations on all the other surfaces, however, need special devices that are constructed to absorb sound energy...called "absorption panels" and, specifically, they should be "broadband" absorption panels meaning they absorb a broad range of frequencies including mid bass, upper bass, mid range and high frequency energy (125/250-20kHz). Just to get it out of the way...

FOAM IS NOT A BROADBAND ABSORPTION MATERIAL.

Well, more accurately, the vast majority of foam absorption panels on the market are not broadband absorbers and the few that are are no less expensive than panels made from superior construction materials. So just stay way from foam absorption panels for treating first reflection locations. They can be marginally useful in other areas, but still not the best solution.

Finding the first reflection locations is pretty easy by using the "mirror method". This video demonstrates how the early reflections compromise sound purity and how to use the mirror method to locate them. Yeah, it's very product promotion oriented and comes across a little like an infomercial, but there's good fundamental info that explains all these topics I've brought up and introduces others (like bass trapping) that should be the next step for room acoustic treatment...


As far as choosing the right panel, you can buy them or make them yourself. They're pretty easy to construct and materials are typically readily available if you live in a decently populated area.

Gotta run, so I'll let you absorb all that and decide if you want or are able to start down this path. I'm happy to answer any questions, and encourage you to explore the bounty of information about room acoustics and acoustic treatments that's out there.

-Michael
 
Last edited:
bdefanski said:
Hello fellow audio nuts! I tried posting this on reddit and got absolutely lambasted for so many things, with so much vitriol, simply for asking for suggestions on how to make things better. I will paste the text of that post, but first I will address one thing - I do not listen to music with the speakers set up the way they are in this photo - that was purely for presentation purposes. I move the speakers not being used out of the way when not being used, and only use one set at a time. what I'd really like is some suggestions on placement and room treatment and how to make this rig sound as good as it possibly can. I've busted my ass over the last couple of years to acquire the collection that I have which is a lot more than what is pictured.. these are just my favorite items.. but I am definitely a novice when it comes to placement and room treatment. any and all suggestions for improvement are welcome. Just please keep your overt negativity to yourself. I simply want to acquire the knowledge necessary to improve my listening experience as I still know basically nothing about optimal room conditions. for reference, the room is 12x18x8 and has terrazzo floors. I thank you all in advance! Original post follows:

Rate my rig!

None of this is super hi-end by any means, and all purchased second hand, but I love it all and I think it sounds great. Just got a new stereo rack off marketplace yesterday so I'm feeling pretty proud of it all. How do you think it all looks? Any thoughts on the components.. past experience or recommendations for modification? Appreciate any and all input, and I appreciate all of you! System is as follows:

Power amp: Adcom GFA-5400

Preamp: Rotel RX-855 stereo receiver using pre-out to the Adcom

Turntable: U-Turn Orbit Plus with Ortofon OM 20 cartridge

Cassette deck: Denon DR-M14HX

CD Player #1: California Audio Labs Icon Mkii

CD Player #2: Sony CDP-C9ESD

Network Streamer/DAC: Marantz NA7004

iMac for downloading/streaming things not accessible through the NA7004 from my DLNA server

Power conditioner: Panamax MAX 1500

Speakers:

Magnepan MMG
Martin Logan Mosaic
Vienna Acoustics Haydn

Sub: Polk Audio PSW-108

Speaker selector: Unbranded but very high quality two amp/four speaker switch unit

I have the CAL's RCA out into the Rotel, and the toslink from the Sony into the Marantz, also the USB audio from the iMac into the Marantz. I've run the digital coax from the Icon through the the Marantz but I find I like the built-in DAC better in that unit. Also, I have an Aiwa AD-WX808 that I purchased used and am waiting for new belts to arrive before I can work it into the mix and get an honest opinion on its performance.
While studying medicine, I took the initiative to seek out various resources. However, it's important to remember that not all online sources are equally reliable. Reddit, for instance, was the least helpful. Before using information from any source, I always verify its credibility. In the future, you might find it beneficial to consult with a librarian or your professor. They can assist you in locating scholarly articles and textbooks that are more relevant to your topic.
Additionally, don't hesitate to discuss complex questions with your classmates. My peers recommended a great service called https://essays.edubirdie.com/nursing-assignment-help that significantly aided me with my assignments. Collaborative learning is an excellent way to solidify your understanding of the material.

Let me know what you all think, and if you have any opinions of the gear. First time posting in the group but I've been perusing around for some time now. Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
Reddit is full of people who love to spout off about things they don't know anything about.
 
Last edited:
Your room isn't square, so the hardest thing to change isn't the worst it could be.

My first suggestion is a thick rug at least from the speakers to you.
 
...and sometimes you just have to live with a bad setup, like in a bedroom or a compromised home-theater room (like my bowling alley).

At least cover the floor and window. Some nice padded furniture, throw pillows, maybe a nice tapestry or two.
 
bdefanski said:
I've busted my ass over the last couple of years to acquire the collection that I have which is a lot more than what is pictured.. these are just my favorite items.. but I am definitely a novice when it comes to placement and room treatment. any and all suggestions for improvement are welcome.
Click to expand...
You have some decent gear and obviously your room needs acoustic treatment. One suggestion I would make is to give your room some personality. That aspect could improve when you do the acoustic treatment so when doing so, try to make it look and feel like a place where someone would like to hang out and have a beer while listening to music without the space being dominated by a mountain of gear.
 
Last edited:
50% of what you hear in any given room is surface reflection; plus your Maggies are bi-directional.
You have countless hours of experimentation ahead of you, and yes, you may need some room treatment.
Good luck, but it's worth your time investment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom