Poor vocals and highs

[gb33]

Okay, besides playing my Michael Jackson record on my step-dads SL-1200 as a kid, I'm new to the game.
While I wait for him to decide to give up his 1200, I found a Technics D2 at a thrift shop. In great working and cosmetic shape. I just bought an AT95e cartridge for it as the other styles was literally gone. Based on my research on here and elsewhere, I think this is where I went wrong. At least I hope.
The highs, and especially the voices sound really bad. Almost sounds like when a feed is too "hot". Not real sure how to describe. Words are tinny, and just really "off" and muffled.
I am feeding to a Sansui 771 Phono input and to rule it out, I used the phono input on a newer (late 90's) Yamaha RX-V595a with phono input, and the issue was still there.
Does this sound like a really bad cartridge alignment? Or something much worse and wrong with the player itself?
Thanks for any help or suggestions you can provide.

 

[mprince]

Sounds like bad alignment, which is critical with an elliptical stylus.

 

[Balifly]

Does this sound like a really bad cartridge alignment?

Try the following cartridge alignment:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

 

[SSaxdude]

Vocals should not sound bad with the AT95E. Set up is critical. I aligned mine (also on a Technics SL-D2) using a Stevenson protractor, VTF of 2.25 grams, antiskate of 2, and I lowered the VTA with plastic spacers from another cartridge. Lowering the VTA allowed me to back off the VTF (from 2.5 grams) while still tracking well.

Also important is keeping your records clean and your stylus clean.

 

[gb33]

Try the following cartridge alignment:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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 View attachment 756632

This is how I did it. At least that's how I tried.

 

[gb33]

Vocals should not sound bad with the AT95E. Set up is critical. I aligned mine (also on a Technics SL-D2) using a Stevenson protractor

I will try that protractor. To be honest, I felt like an idiot trying to figure out how to use the other alignment protractor I tried. Do I need to be looking directly over the top to get the alignment on the paper?

 

[gb33]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was (am) just afraid it was going to me wrong with either the player or receivers electronics.

 

[SSaxdude]

I will try that protractor. To be honest, I felt like an idiot trying to figure out how to use the other alignment protractor I tried. Do I need to be looking directly over the top to get the alignment on the paper?

Yes, and look at it straight on to check to see if the cantilever is aligned.

 

[for_p1]

I was (am) just afraid it was going to me wrong with either the player or receivers electronics.

This also could be a case. If alignment does not help much, it could be something is indeed broken. Vinyl playback is not plug and play. Proper tuning tales a lot of time and cost of required tools is not insignificant.

 

[Worthy_Wax]

make sure your speaker wires are in the proper polarities and that your RCA plugs are in their proper homes as well.... When I first set up my table both of those things were incorrect and it sounded like someone had thrown a blanket over whoever was singing. Everyone said it was my stylus, tracking force, a bad pressing.nope. All my wires were out of phase. I was ready to throw my table, and myself, through the wall.

 

[Balifly]

Make sure the four color wires are plugged into the correct pins.

 

[vincei]

Just get a AT-440MLb. It's Microlinear stylus profile will track very well all the way to the end. I know it's expensive, but this is the way to go if you want excellent tracking of high frequencies. I've tried over many years to get less distortion with conical and elliptical styli without success and just could not take it anymore. Then in 1989, I scraped up all the money I had and I got my AT-140ML and it was a game changer...just my experience of course (and many others' too).

 

[gb33]

I have been using the AT95e ever since I bought my Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB (it came pre-aligned in the headshell with the table) and have been experiencing the EXACT same thing as the OP...highs are shrill, vocals get sibilant and splatty and cymbal crashes exhibit a displeasing, nasty decay that turns most music into white noise (namely near the labels of records). I've tried everything -- realignment, heavier tracking weight, playing with the anti-skate...I CANNOT get rid of nasty inner groove distortion/tracing problems with this cart and stylus. Even upping the AT95's tracking force to a confirmed 2.3 grams (maximum recommended is 2.5), I STILL get sibilant vocals (granted -- SOME of this is probably due to the records I play, which, for a great majority, are older 12-inch club music singles from when I owned a DJ business years ago...so these are probably cut hot and some may already have groove damage, though I've deep-cleaned many of em). From everything I learned in this hobby, upping the tracking force is supposed to be one of the primary tactics to smoothing out harsh, sibilant highs...but while this helped the problem a bit when I first upped my 95 to 2.3 grams, it seems now the sibilance and harsh highs are back stronger than ever before...perhaps my stylus is aging and is ready to be replaced, I don't know...all I know is that I broke my back deep-cleaning many records over the past month or so, and NOTHING gets rid of the horrid edgy, sibilant, harsh sound on the inner tracks. Just yesterday, in fact, I deep-cleaned my Public Enemy It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back and Wilson Phillips LPs -- both exhibited HORRIBLE edgy, crunchy distortion towards the ends of the sides, making the ends of these LPs almost unplayable.

While good for a "starter" cart, I just don't think the AT95 (at least in its stock elliptical form) holds up well under scrutiny or when attempting to track really densely-packed inner grooves...

No way. This cartridge gets terrific reviews in several publications and forums for its price to performance ratio. Has to be something I am missing.

 

[nasadowsk]

Can you hook your receiver's tape outputs to your computer and record a few seconds at high quality, then post it up here? Maybe if we can hear what you're hearing, we'll get a better idea where to look?

(This should be a suggestion somewhere for everyone here, because it's useful but not obvious to everyone)

 

[grottyash]

It would seem to be a configuration problem to me. The AT 95E is capable of a fine performance, but, like all ellipticals, requires careful setting up. Even a smidge out and you get the kind of performance you describe.

 

[savatage1973]

I will try that protractor. To be honest, I felt like an idiot trying to figure out how to use the other alignment protractor I tried. Do I need to be looking directly over the top to get the alignment on the paper?

When you mentioned PAPER, that brings up a whole other potential issue. If you download and print protractors, make sure that the actual printout measures correctly. I know if you download and print from Vinyl Engine, you have to make sure your printer is set to "full size" NOT "fit to page"--otherwise it is not accurate. Technics tables typically use the Stevenson alignment, but you could try others just to hear what happens in your case.

 

[gb33]

I don't understand; I was merely sharing my experience with this cart...

And yes -- it gets top marks for its "price to performance ratio"...but its performance is decent at best in my experience, and the cost reflects that. I don't believe (though we should be able to) that you're gonna experience mind-blowing sonics from a cart that retails for around 40 bucks; thus, I'm beginning to fear the 95 has the limitations I've described to you...

Oh sorry, I wasn't trying to be combative. I agree your experience sounds very similar to mine.
I just hope you are wrong.

 

[gb33]

When you mentioned PAPER, that brings up a whole other potential issue. If you download and print protractors, make sure that the actual printout measures correctly. I know if you download and print from Vinyl Engine, you have to make sure your printer is set to "full size" NOT "fit to page"--otherwise it is not accurate. Technics tables typically use the Stevenson alignment, but you could try others just to hear what happens in your case.

Ahh. Thanks for the tip.

 

[SSaxdude]

I don't understand; I was merely sharing my experience with this cart...

And yes -- it gets top marks for its "price to performance ratio"...but its performance is decent at best in my experience, and the cost reflects that. I don't believe (though we should be able to) that you're gonna experience mind-blowing sonics from a cart that retails for around 40 bucks; thus, I'm beginning to fear the 95 has the limitations I've described to you...

You haven't ruled out everything that can cause IGD. To really know that it's the cartridge (and the possible limitations of the .4 x .7 elliptical stylus) you would need to rule the stylus you're using and the turntable itself.

But, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Which is unfortunate. Fortunately, it does work for most users.

 

[grottyash]

Really? I see only positive reviews. Also, from memory, you didn't really investigate your configuration' did you? That isn't being nasty, but says you'd already given the impression you'd decided to go for another cartridge, rather than troubleshoot the one you had.