Power Amp Questions

[El Gato]

In some people's mind more unused power (200 watts) makes a difference, it doesn't, quality over quantity.
20 - 40 Luxman watts is going to be hard to beat.

Before this post, I wasn’t quite sure of the capabilities of that Luxman amp. I adore the sound of this class A beauty. It took a couple years saving up for the purchase. I’m not giving it up and the L-550AX, like it’s big brother 590, is now out of production forever. The JBL L-100’s size wise is about as large as I can go. The Heresy IV’s were chosen in part for their size to sound ratio. They’re perfect size for where they must be placed in the room…and I do like the way they sound. However, I have a nagging feeling I can find a speaker about the same size that sounds better.

 

[El Gato]

Its always about the speakers. They're the most important choice. So I would audition some of the new Forte' if you adequate space, then the series IV Cornwalls. Then you don't have to change or try to add an amp to add more power. If you really like the Luxman sound then you want to use a Luxman basic power amp for a perfect match. Why would you want to spend the next year or two pulling your hair trying different other brand amplifiers. I have had the opportunities to hear your IV hersey and I think the Forte and Cornwall IVs would where I would look first. You might want to try Belle speakers but they are much larger and their bass is no better if as good as your Hersey. As Belle speakers are all older the midrange horn of the Belle will not be as good as the Fort' or Cornwall IV. Plus Klipsch has done some very important re-voicing of all the model 4 speakers which you seem to prefer. I do. over earlier Klipsch models.

My first choice was the Forte IV’s, unfortunately…and sadly, they are too large for where they must be placed in the room. The Heresy IV’s are perfect size, look good in the room, sound good. However, like I mentioned to opnly bafld, I have a nagging feeling there may be speakers that I don’t know about out there somewhere that are the same size as the Heresy and sound better.

 

[TomD62]

My first choice was the Forte IV’s, unfortunately…and sadly, they are too large for where they must be placed in the room. The Heresy IV’s are perfect size, look good in the room, sound good. However, like I mentioned to opnly bafld, I have a nagging feeling there may be speakers that I don’t know about out there somewhere that are the same size as the Heresy and sound better.

I am sure you will find better sounding speakers than the Heresy IV. I auditioned a pair and did not care for them, purchased the Forte IV's. Don't be afraid to experiment and just make sure of the return policy before you purchase. If a pair doesn't wow you in your space with your equipment, send them back. I had a 30 day money back situation when I got the Forte's, but they really opened up after 100 hours and I kept them. Good luck. This could be fun!

 

[jayvis]

My first choice was the Forte IV’s, unfortunately…and sadly, they are too large for where they must be placed in the room. The Heresy IV’s are perfect size, look good in the room, sound good. However, like I mentioned to opnly bafld, I have a nagging feeling there may be speakers that I don’t know about out there somewhere that are the same size as the Heresy and sound better.

Are you sure that the Forte IV won't fit? They're only a little over 1" wider and the same depth as the Heresy. The only place that the Forte won't really work well is on a bookshelf. But then, either will the Heresy.

 

[El Gato]

Are you sure that the Forte IV won't fit? They're only a little over 1" wider and the same depth as the Heresy. The only place that the Forte won't really work well is on a bookshelf. But then, either will the Heresy.

I don’t know if you can feel my pain on this common problem with us married men who have the audio disease, but according to my lovely wife……the Forte’s are too tall. The speakers are in front of a built in bookcase. Take a look at the banner in my profile. You’ll see the tops of the Heresy’s in relation to the bookcases. I can get maybe another inch or two taller at the most with no…or little resistance.

 

[jayvis]

I don’t know if you can feel my pain on this common problem with us married men who have the audio disease, but according to my lovely wife……the Forte’s are too tall. The speakers are in front of a built in bookcase. Take a look at the banner in my profile. You’ll see the tops of the Heresy’s in relation to the bookcases. I can get maybe another inch or two taller at the most with no…or little resistance.

I'm very familiar with that issue. Compromise is often required to keep the peace.

 

[Akustic]

Before this post, I wasn’t quite sure of the capabilities of that Luxman amp. I adore the sound of this class A beauty. It took a couple years saving up for the purchase. I’m not giving it up and the L-550AX, like it’s big brother 590, is now out of production forever. The JBL L-100’s size wise is about as large as I can go. The Heresy IV’s were chosen in part for their size to sound ratio. They’re perfect size for where they must be placed in the room…and I do like the way they sound. However, I have a nagging feeling I can find a speaker about the same size that sounds better.

Read, study, look for popular speakers on this and other boards, but ..

The best thing that you could do right now is get out and about and listen to as many different speakers as you can ..
They will all sound different from one another ..
Take a trip to a city with audio stores.. used or otherwise, visit them and listen ..

When you hear something that sounds better to you than your Klipsch's then you'll have an idea what you're after.
Lot's of folks ( and I'm one ) find that something sounds better than the Klipsch's, but they don't have your ears and preferences .. only you can answer that.
Once you've decided on a couple three speakers, suggestions about amps, and how to use your Luxman will be a lot more meaningful ..

Both the amp and preamp will have their own audio qualities, and it's always a coin flip over which one has more effect on the sonics of the system.
They both affect the sonics, so it's always a combination of both in answer to your question.

 

[AudioAvarice]

Might be worth trying some smaller Tannoy DC speakers, I've got a set of their 90's midrange 609's which are fantastic, and have good efficiency.

 

[El Gato]

Read, study, look for popular speakers on this and other boards, but ..

The best thing that you could do right now is get out and about and listen to as many different speakers as you can ..
They will all sound different from one another ..
Take a trip to a city with audio stores.. used or otherwise, visit them and listen ..

When you hear something that sounds better to you than your Klipsch's then you'll have an idea what you're after.
Lot's of folks ( and I'm one ) find that something sounds better than the Klipsch's, but they don't have your ears and preferences .. only you can answer that.
Once you've decided on a couple three speakers, suggestions about amps, and how to use your Luxman will be a lot more meaningful ..

Both the amp and preamp will have their own audio qualities, and it's always a coin flip over which one has more effect on the sonics of the system.
They both affect the sonics, so it's always a combination of both in answer to your question.

If I go the power amp route, which seems less likely now, I definitely would not want that class A sound of the Luxman degraded. That would just be wrong. I love the sound of that thing. My approach has changed. I will home demo speakers first that will work and sound better than the Heresy IV’s. I do like the way they sound. If I find better sounding that are approx the same size, the H4’s will be moved.

 

[Akustic]

If I go the power amp route, which seems less likely now, I definitely would not want that class A sound of the Luxman degraded. That would just be wrong. I love the sound of that thing. My approach has changed. I will home demo speakers first that will work and sound better than the Heresy IV’s. I do like the way they sound. If I find better sounding that are approx the same size, the H4’s will be moved.

In your room, in your system is the best way .. we all have our preferences,,
The main advantage to the audio store route is that it can set a bar for what's possible because you can listen to a lot of systems in a short time ..
Most amps will run in class A to a point .. depends on the amp and the sensitivity of the speakers that it's driving ..
Enjoy the Music ..

 

[krautmaster]

I don’t know if you can feel my pain on this common problem with us married men who have the audio disease, but according to my lovely wife……the Forte’s are too tall. The speakers are in front of a built in bookcase. Take a look at the banner in my profile. You’ll see the tops of the Heresy’s in relation to the bookcases. I can get maybe another inch or two taller at the most with no…or little resistance.

Put a couple 2"x4"s under the bookcase to lift it up, she may not really notice it... I have been slowly pulling my speakers way from the wall 3" at a time while moving the chairs and rug back at the same time. They are almost three feet away from the wall now (34") without complaint from the wife....

 

[mcgjohn]

So, I usually find an answer to my questions here Fairly quick, but with all the posts about power amps I still don't see any answers. Close...but yet so far.
Ok. I have a Luxman L-550AXII integrated amp, Class A @ 20 watts P/channel. I have a pair of Klipsch Heresy IV's hooked up to them. The Heresy's are most likely getting moved to another room. A lot of the replacement speakers I'm looking at do not have the efficiency that the Klipsch possess. I'm thinking I may need a decent power amp between the Luxman and the new speakers in order to boost wattage if the efficiency is too low for 20 watts.
If that's the case, is the end result wattage pre amp + power amp or whichever amp has the highest wattage?
Is the resulting sound dominated by the pre or power amp or combination of both?
If I'm going about this problem wrong, let me know why. Any recommendations, advice or opinions? Thank you.

James

what you really want to know is how much current does each amp deliver. Not easy to find. The Klipsch can be driven with a few milliwatts. Most speakers are not at that efficiency level. If you want to keep the same amp, look for speakers with 94-96db efficiency numbers.

 

[sanford12]

If you get a high current power amp you'll open up yourself to speakers that are hard to drive but worth it. Even with efficient speakers you may find that they sound better. Best of all is your future proof and no longer have to wonder if your amp can handle it. I can vouch for the class A/B Parasound 2250 v2. It drives the Maggie LRS+ to 90+Db and can dip below 2ohms and only gets warm. It's matching pre is also very good and versatile.

Had a Luxman L450. Great amp. Have had a couple more Luxman's all good sounding. Don't let people tell you that the unused amps of a power amp don't make difference. When an amp has a lot of overhead it's just loafing driving a pair of efficient speakers. One example is background singers can tend to be all lumped together with the Parasound those same background singers are heard as individuals. Control, separation and sound stage all benefit. I had a pair of Heresy's. They are an entry level speaker that were easily bested by 2-way Altec Boleros even before they were recapped. The L100's need an amp that's not bright sounding or they may be a bit shrill.

 

[opnly bafld]

Don't let people tell you unused power will make a difference, quality over quantity.
If more power always = better why do well regarded companies make lower power amplifiers?

Some amplifiers are made to be pushed.
Do people buy a Ferrari to drive down to the corner store to get a loaf (of bread)?

 

[El Gato]

Put a couple 2"x4"s under the bookcase to lift it up, she may not really notice it... I have been slowly pulling my speakers way from the wall 3" at a time while moving the chairs and rug back at the same time. They are almost three feet away from the wall now (34") without complaint from the wife....

Put a couple 2"x4"s under the bookcase to lift it up, she may not really notice it... I have been slowly pulling my speakers way from the wall 3" at a time while moving the chairs and rug back at the same time. They are almost three feet away from the wall now (34") without complaint from the wife....

LMAO…Audio gaslighting. I’ve tried that with the volume on a few nights after a scotch or two. just hit the volume button on the remote really quick during the quiet parts. Little by little until you get “the look”.

 

[El Gato]

Don't let people tell you unused power will make a difference, quality over quantity.
If more power always = better why do well regarded companies make lower power amplifiers?

Some amplifiers are made to be pushed.
Do people buy a Ferrari to drive down to the corner store to get a loaf (of bread)?

This has been my philosophy for quite some time now. Quality over quantity. Pure class A @ 20 watts sure does sound sweet. However, that Luxman can do 40 watts @ 4 ohms and that’s what I’ll keep in mind. The more I think about it the more I believe that is the route I’ll take. Electronics is not my forte. There is no button to push on the amp that says 40 watts, so I can only imagine it’s the build of the speakers that will pull it out of the amp?

 

[sanford12]

Don't let people tell you unused power will make a difference, quality over quantity.
If more power always = better why do well regarded companies make lower power amplifiers?

Some amplifiers are made to be pushed.
Do people buy a Ferrari to drive down to the corner store to get a loaf (of bread)?

So the car analog makes no sense applied to audio. My Outlaw did 165 watts into 4ohms but couldn't drive my pair of Canton Karat 300's. When demoed the Cantons were hooked to a high current power amp. The Outlaw was replaced with 400 per into 4ohms Parasound and now they sounded like when they were demoed. When looking at the Maggies LRS+ it was nice to know I had the amp to drive them. Had a 22 watt NAD receiver that was built to carry transient highs and it was a excellent receiver and handled everything I threw at it but nothing like the Cantons or Maggies. If you want to settle for a low power amp you should check it's ability to carry transient highs. And why do well regarded companies build their low watt stuff? It's cheaper. Watts are the cheapest they've ever been. Why would you not want to hear what your speakers can do. Power. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Makes no sense to me since I've had a bunch vintage amps 70 watts and lower and none can touch what the Parasound does. If you have a good power amp more power is always better. I know because I've been down the the low power route and looking back spent far to much time there.

 

[Dan13105]

This is why your speakers determine what you need. This is what is power is required to get unclipped signal, with 2 of my sets of speakers, at THX spec level of 85Db with 105Db peaks. The first speaker is my very efficient Infinity SM150
Only 18W, not bad. Just about any receiver can drive them being they're 8 ohms as well. Now let's look at my Acoustat Spectra 1100 electrostats that are much harder to drive at only 86Db sensitivity, and impedance that dips to 1.1 Ohms


Wow, 715W! Quite the difference in power requirement. Let's try a more average speaker spec of a Pioneer S-T300 that is 6 Ohms and 88Db sensitivity.




Still 451W required. But notice how just a 2Db change in sensitivity requires 264W less. This is why there is no simple answer to how many watts one needs or can use. If you listen louder or quieter, closer or farther, or use more or less sensitive speakers, all drastically affect the power requirements. This is why I use Crown's amp calculator on their site. When I was shopping for my Acoustats, I knew I needed an amp that could handle occasional 1 Ohm loads, and high current capacity. I bought a very capable amp that came from a THX theater. IT truly doubles down on power when impedance halves from 300W at 8Ohms , to 600W at 4 Ohms, and it still isn't powerful enough for true THX levels with my electrostats. Try the calculator out, you may find you need way more or less than you thought

 

[twiiii]

Now you see why speaker sensitivity and pattern control are so important. Substitute your Hersey in the equation and your Luxman would almost fill the bill and no need for a change. I will say Klipsch two way speakers in their HT line won't cut the mustard for sure when compared to a Hersey. Take your wife to hear a pair of Fort's playing her favorite type of music. Maybe you can win her over. It might be easier than you think. It worked that way for me. Selling some one on Concert Grands or Klipschorn or even larger Patricians or Hartsfield Speakers can be a real challenge some times. JBL L100's will take 4 to 8 times the power you normally use to get the same level. They sound totally different, too. I would say you want an Altec model 14 but thats to big too.

 

[Akustic]

Don't let people tell you unused power will make a difference, quality over quantity.
If more power always = better why do well regarded companies make lower power amplifiers?

Some amplifiers are made to be pushed.
Do people buy a Ferrari to drive down to the corner store to get a loaf (of bread)?

Depends on the speaker load being presented to the amp ...
Dynamics will suffer from inadequate reserve power ..
Low wattage amps are limited to driving only high sensitivity speakers ...

Some of us don't want to be limited in our speaker choices..
Too much power is unneeded but too little power impairs my music .. I'll err on the side of extra power..

Horses for courses...