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Power: AVR vs 2 channel SS

Sitka

Sitka

Active Member
I am sure this is an old saw; it's just something that is so very apparent in my setup that I gotta talk about it.

My gear / system consists of 2 amps, 3 pair of speakers, and switching functions to allow A/B amp selection, speaker selection (up to 4 pair) and various sources - CD, TT & streaming.

the system:
Home Theater side: Harmon Kardon AVR7550HD / 100 watts per 7 channels. (power consumption, 7 channels driven,). 1405W. also CD player, Apple TV & streaming feeds.

Music side: Marantz 2238B 38watts 2 channel. (power consumption, 2 channels driven), 170 watts; and Musical Paradise P2, MC Phono stage preamp, and TT.


When playing the outdoor patio speakers ( 86 db sensitivity) I have noticed the AVR (in 2 channel mode), in spite of having a rated 100 watts, is not as loud / powerful when the same speakers are driven by the Marantz rated at 38 watts?? The Marantz seems to have substantially more power; when the HK is maxed out, the Marantz still has plenty of gas in the tank!

I'm going to take some dB readings to compare the loudness at max with both amps, but I know from casual listening the Marantz is louder at about 60% volume than the HK at full volume.

What is the reason? Was the HK sold with over inflated power ratings? Is the Marantz under rated? I believe all gear is working properly and have all normal functions.
 
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Hmmm, channel level on the H/K reduced due to previous setup procedure/auto calibration, maybe?

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Sitka: Automatic or manual speaker level adjustment/calibration could - as could input level adjustment per input, as offered by some modern gear. Don't know, what exactly your H/K offers in that regard, but if you go through its settings menus, you should see.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Sitka said:
What is the reason? Was the HK sold with over inflated power ratings? Is the Marantz under rated? I believe all gear is working properly and have all normal functions.
Click to expand...
Who’s to say, but I’ll throw out a speculation: the speakers are low impedance and the Marantz has higher current capability. Some AV receivers are not happy driving 4 ohm speakers.
 
Connect the HK directly to the spkrs, minus the selector, and see if there is a difference..
Or just swap the input connections on the selector, just to eliminate it as the issue..
 
Sitka said:
I am sure this is an old saw; it's just something that is so very apparent in my setup that I gotta talk about it.

My gear / system consists of 2 amps, 3 pair of speakers, and switching functions to allow A/B amp selection, speaker selection (up to 4 pair) and various sources - CD, TT & streaming.

the system:
Home Theater side: Harmon Kardon AVR7550HD / 100 watts per 7 channels. (power consumption, 7 channels driven,). 1405W. also CD player, Apple TV & streaming feeds.

Music side: Marantz 2238B 38watts 2 channel. (power consumption, 2 channels driven), 170 watts; and Musical Paradise P2, MC Phono stage preamp, and TT.


When playing the outdoor patio speakers ( 86 db sensitivity) I have noticed the AVR (in 2 channel mode), in spite of having a rated 100 watts, is not as loud / powerful when the same speakers are driven by the Marantz rated at 38 watts?? The Marantz seems to have substantially more power; when the HK is maxed out, the Marantz still has plenty of gas in the tank!

I'm going to take some dB readings to compare the loudness at max with both amps, but I know from casual listening the Marantz is louder at about 60% volume than the HK at full volume.

What is the reason? Was the HK sold with over inflated power ratings? Is the Marantz under rated? I believe all gear is working properly and have all normal functions.
Click to expand...
Maybe the loudness and tone bass and midrange controls on the marantz make it sound more powerful
 
E-Stat said:
Who’s to say, but I’ll throw out a speculation: the speakers are low impedance and the Marantz has higher current capability. Some AV receivers are not happy driving 4 ohm speakers.
Click to expand...

thanks to all for your suggestions.

My patio speakers are Dayton Audio IO655 6-1/2 ; sensitivity SPL87. 8ohm ( they also have a 70v tap for 4w, 16w, 30w; but I don't understand that feature)

My indoor speakers are Altecs 8ohm /SPL97 and Electro Voice 16ohm. SPL 98.

I haven't noticed the issue on my indoor system since I normally don't play at loud levels; and the higher sensitivity of the indoor speakers presents a normal listening level at much lower volume on the dial of both amps.

But outside, on the patio, more volume is needed due to the larger listening area, other ambient sounds from wind, traffic and the surf compound the issue. Yesterday I had Chris Rea / Road to Hell on the HK playing on the Daytons, I had the volume of the HK at max! yes it was loud, but not "call the cops" loud - and the Marantz would have been able to blow out the Daytons I'm afraid.

I'll recheck all settings on the HK, speaker levels and such, perhaps something is askew, but I doubt it. And Besides, when the HK is set on 2 channel, I believe that the speaker settings and matrix issue becomes moot - correct??

any other suggestions?
 
Power rating of the AVR in 2ch mode may not be all its advertised but even at 1/2 of that it doesn't explain things. I'd make sure effects are off and only L&R stereo are being driven. I'd also disconnect any switching and run the speakers directly to the AVR for teating purposes. Having to turn vol all the way up doesn't sound right.
 
OP hasn't stated if his observations are based on "matching" volume control settings between the two sources?
10:00 on one amp/receiver might not put out the same "volume" level as 10:00 on another amp/receiver.
Different volume controls have different characteristics. Likewise the different amps may have different gain levels.
Also tone controls and loudness specs may differ between the different amp/receivers.
In addition, speaker efficiency can play a big part in output volume at the same volume setting.
 
I have a pair of Onkyo AVRs 100w x 7 channels and they will blow the roof off in 2 channel config. No 30w receiver can touch them because right off the bat they are 3dbs+ louder then 30w's

They also weigh as much as a big iron 200w per channel amplifier each. Most AVRs I have seen are fly weights except the Denon and Onkyo's that have ended up in my possession. My wife's Pioneer AVR is a good example of a feather weight, all looks and no power
 
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