Preamp for around $1000??

[2FarGone]

Actually it measures exceptionally poorly with very high levels of noise and distortion.

PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC & Stellar M700 DAC/Preamp/Monoblocks Lab Report

Lab Report Although PS Audio has adopted the tried-and-tested ES9018 DAC, the usual mix of low noise, low distortion and vanishingly low jitter are swamped here by PSU noise and THD from, presumably, the encapsulated 'Gain Cell' preamp. The A-wtd S/N is 90dB (re. 0dBV, or just 103dB via the DAC...

www.hifinews.com

Review and Measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC. It is on kind loan from someone who read my review of PS Audio DirectStream DAC and wanted to know how this model of PS Audio DAC performs. The Stellar Gain Cell costs US $1,699 which as high-end audio DACs go is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You certainly can accept ASR as an authoritative source if you so choose, although in my mind they have as much credibility as the National Enquirer. Have you ever actually listened to o one in a high-end system?

 

[MuseChaser]

A couple other suggestions well under $1K...

Used - an Adcom GFP565. Really nice built-in phono stage. My favorite Adcom pre for its old school simplicity, reliability, and stunningly neutral sound quality. No remote though

New - Dan Joffe's Akitika PR102, available in kit form or fully assembled. Phono stage is an option, and superb. Headphone amp is also optional. Has a remote. Just a fantastic preamp, especially at its price point, which is all the more attractive if you like to solder and build kits.

Neither have built-in streaming capabilities, but I concur with other posters who've suggested it's better to handle those duties with an outboard component of your choice. I use a bunch of Raspberry Pi-based boxes in my various systems throughout the house.

 

[Mart Mccall]

You certainly can accept ASR as an authoritative source if you so choose, although in my mind they have as much credibility as the National Enquirer. Have you ever actually listened to o one in a high-end system?

Both ASR and HFN meausured it, I provided links to both sites. Results are the same although presented differently.

Personal preference aside your claim that it is superior to the Topping DAC is not supported by the evidence. It has very poor signal to noise ratio by modern standards and in that respect it is orders of magnitude worse than the Topping. The power supply is bleeding noise into the signal. That alone is indicative of sloppy engineering which simply can't be justified at the price.

The noise level is sufficient to mask low-level details in the sound. That will be a subtle degradation but why would anyone want that let alone pay a premium for it?

 

[Ken Boyd]

Actually it measures exceptionally poorly with very high levels of noise and distortion.

PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC & Stellar M700 DAC/Preamp/Monoblocks Lab Report

Lab Report Although PS Audio has adopted the tried-and-tested ES9018 DAC, the usual mix of low noise, low distortion and vanishingly low jitter are swamped here by PSU noise and THD from, presumably, the encapsulated 'Gain Cell' preamp. The A-wtd S/N is 90dB (re. 0dBV, or just 103dB via the DAC...

www.hifinews.com

Review and Measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC. It is on kind loan from someone who read my review of PS Audio DirectStream DAC and wanted to know how this model of PS Audio DAC performs. The Stellar Gain Cell costs US $1,699 which as high-end audio DACs go is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

These guys are brutally honest, but it is nice to know the facts for those of us that don't have accurate testing/measuring equipment.

These guys helped expose the Carver amps shortcomings. Think of all the poor guys who purchased all those Carver tube amps, only to find out they had been hoodwinked. Now you can't give one a way, but at least it put to end all the people who might have purchased them.

 

[2FarGone]

Both ASR and HFN meausured it, I provided links to both sites. Results are the same although presented differently.

Personal preference aside your claim that it is superior to the Topping DAC is not supported by the evidence. It has very poor signal to noise ratio by modern standards and in that respect it is orders of magnitude worse than the Topping. The power supply is bleeding noise into the signal. That alone is indicative of sloppy engineering which simply can't be justified at the price.

The noise level is sufficient to mask low-level details in the sound. That will be a subtle degradation but why would anyone want that let alone pay a premium for it?

You’ve answered my question. Thank you.

 

[Isotonic]

These guys are brutally honest, but it is nice to know the facts for those of us that don't have accurate testing/measuring equipment.

These guys helped expose the Carver amps shortcomings. Think of all the poor guys who purchased all those Carver tube amps, only to find out they had been hoodwinked. Now you can't give one a way, but at least it put to end all the people who might have purchased them.

Their "facts" and their "conclusions" are erroneous. How it measures and how it sounds are two completely different things. Lot's of people love their Carver tube amps and they don't need ASR's permission to do so.

 

[MuseChaser]

Their "facts" and their "conclusions" are erroneous. How it measures and how it sounds are two completely different things. Lot's of people love their Carver tube amps and they don't need ASR's permission to do so.

Let's take a look at the various possibilities...

1. Gear that measures well sounds good in most situations, assuming that gear is paired intelligently with other gear expecting similar loads, power and current requirements, etc. Makes sense.

2. Gear that measures well but sounds poor to some people. Which is more likely..the gear sounds bad for some physically indefinable reason, or that it is being used in situations for which it was not intended, or that something else in the audio chain is faulty?

3. Gear that measures poorly but sounds great to some folks. Again...what is more likely...the measured gear's shortcomings are simply pleasing to the ear of the listener/proud owner (i.e., they love even order distortion, equating it or a high noise floor with "warmth" or "immediacy," etc) or are counteracting/compensating for a flawed component elsewhere in the system, or that factual physical measurements are meaningless and that an individual's ears are more "accurate" than a scientifically measured baseline?

I'm not one to deny anyone the pleasure of listening to ANYTHING they love, genre or gear-related. Still, the idea that measurements are meaningless and that one's ear is more accurate than our current ability to scientifically quantify audio performance is simply...well... willfully ignorant?

 

[Isotonic]

Let's take a look at the various possibilities...

1. Gear that measures well sounds good in most situations, assuming that gear is paired intelligently with other gear expecting similar loads, power and current requirements, etc. Makes sense.

2. Gear that measures well but sounds poor to some people. Which is more likely..the gear sounds bad for some physically indefinable reason, or that it is being used in situations for which it was not intended, or that something else in the audio chain is faulty?

3. Gear that measures poorly but sounds great to some folks. Again...what is more likely...the measured gear's shortcomings are simply pleasing to the ear of the listener/proud owner (i.e., they love even order distortion, equating it or a high noise floor with "warmth" or "immediacy," etc) or are counteracting/compensating for a flawed component elsewhere in the system, or that factual physical measurements are meaningless and that an individual's ears are more "accurate" than a scientifically measured baseline?

I'm not one to deny anyone the pleasure of listening to ANYTHING they love, genre or gear-related. Still, the idea that measurements are meaningless and that one's ear is more accurate than our current ability to scientifically quantify audio performance is simply...well... willfully ignorant?

Nope. Measurements do not correlate with musicality. "Sounds good" is a human response. Not measurable with a machine. If you spend your attention on Measurements, you learn nothing about how it sounds and what you value.

You are the Muse Chaser. You should know that.

 

[krautmaster]

I had no idea they had gotten that expensive. I purchased mine from Crutchfield three or four years ago, and paid around $1500 brand new. As far as the amps: It has been my experience that while you can bridge amps, they lose the efficiency they had as a two channel. If it were me, I would just keep the single 555, as that is an amazing piece on its own

A brand new P6 will set you back $2600... yikes

 

[Mart Mccall]

These guys are brutally honest, but it is nice to know the facts for those of us that don't have accurate testing/measuring equipment.

These guys helped expose the Carver amps shortcomings. Think of all the poor guys who purchased all those Carver tube amps, only to find out they had been hoodwinked. Now you can't give one a way, but at least it put to end all the people who might have purchased them.

Yes, it's a shame that people feel they have to defend poor quality electronics with 'Have you listened to it?'

I listen to music not voltage in a circuit. The DAC or preamp should not be altering or degrading the signal if it has any aspirations to high fidelity and plenty of them don't do either - at all price levels.

 

[Mongo1958]

A brand new P6 will set you back $2600... yikes

Yeah, That's when I started looking for and found a used one at Audio Advisor for $1300.

 

[RVT1K]

New - Dan Joffe's Akitika PR102, available in kit form or fully assembled. Phono stage is an option, and superb. Headphone amp is also optional. Has a remote. Just a fantastic preamp, especially at its price point, which is all the more attractive if you like to solder and build kits.

I was going to suggest the Akitaka as well. But when I checked the website to verify that it had a phono section available, I saw that the PR102 has been discontinued.

 

[borchee]

Their "facts" and their "conclusions" are erroneous.

Quite a bold statement! What facts can you provide against?

BTW, reffering to a forum as 'ASR dogma', the members, you disagree with, as 'running little soldiers' and a member as a 'liar' is what will get you banned here as well - just try it. Trash-talking other forums is against the rules of this one:

Specific Rules:
Don’t insult others, or engage in name-calling.
...
Conflicts or gripes with other people or other forums do not belong on AK.

You're not as relevant, as you think of yourself! Don't bother to respond - I'm even less relevant.

 

[techguy0192]

Quite a bold statement! What facts can you provide against?

BTW, reffering to a forum as 'ASR dogma', the members, you disagree with, as 'running little soldiers' and a member as a 'liar' is what will get you banned here as well - just try it. Trash-talking other forums is against the rules of this one:

Specific Rules:
Don’t insult others, or engage in name-calling.
...
Conflicts or gripes with other people or other forums do not belong on AK.

You're not as relevant, as you think of yourself! Don't bother to respond - I'm even less relevant.

@Isotonic is a cool dude and you're not a forum mod. So, there's that fact.

 

[MuseChaser]

I was going to suggest the Akitaka as well. But when I checked the website to verify that it had a phono section available, I saw that the PR102 has been discontinued.

Uuuggghhh. You're correct...I just checked on Dan's page. Awful news; that preamp is one of my best audio purchases of all time and it's a shame others can't grab one now. The phono pre board or standalone kit is still available, it looks like, and it's a great phono pre...one of the main reasons I love the PR102 so much.

 

[fredgarvin]

Uuuggghhh. You're correct...I just checked on Dan's page. Awful news; that preamp is one of my best audio purchases of all time and it's a shame others can't grab one now. The phono pre board or standalone kit is still available, it looks like, and it's a great phono pre...one of the main reasons I love the PR102 so much.

I was intrigued by the 104 amp but when i decided to try one, it was discontinued. Too slow Joe.

 

[Natasha Bell]

Yeah, That's when I started looking for and found a used one at Audio Advisor for $1300.

I have been exceptionally happy with my P6 Halo. What an amazing unit.

 

[MuseChaser]

I was intrigued by the 104 amp but when i decided to try one, it was discontinued. Too slow Joe.

It looks like Dan is still producing the GT102(4)(8)S kits. There was one page of his site that indicated he could no longer source the TI power amp integrated circuit, which led to his developing the fully discreet (and thus more involved from a kit-building standpoint) -104 and -108 kits. The GT102 does look to be available again now...I was able to add it to my "cart"... but I'd check with Dan first to make sure

 

[2FarGone]

Yes, it's a shame that people feel they have to defend poor quality electronics with 'Have you listened to it?'

I listen to music not voltage in a circuit. The DAC or preamp should not be altering or degrading the signal if it has any aspirations to high fidelity and plenty of them don't do either - at all price levels.

My immediate reaction to this is that must be one helluva burden of hubris to carry around.

So you’ve made the statement that what appears to be an accepted piece of equipment from a respected manufacturer is poorly designed. I think it entirely reasonable to ask that you justify that statement without referencing ASR, which I do not accept as an authoritative source.

 

[sanford12]

Parasound NewClassic 200 Pre. They're selling it now for $675 normally it's 900. You have to buy it from their web site to get that price. I have one along with the 2250 v2. It's a great pre and that's a great price for something that good. Even has a DAC