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Preamp tubes

DonP1

Active Member
Or, why not use 12AX7's for everything?

I come from a guitar amp background. Wondering why you would use anything but the 12AX7?

Granted, some designs came out before this tube was produced. But is there a "tone" reason to use other tube types?

Going to be doing some home brew stuff, so just doing some research first.

Thanks.
 
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Or, why not use 12AX7's for everything?

I come from a guitar amp background. Wondering why you would use anything but the 12AX7?

Granted, some designs came out before this tube was produced. But is there a "tone" reason to use other tube types?

Going to be doing some home brew stuff, so just doing some research first.

Thanks.

Too much gain, too little current.
 
Might need something with...
-Lower plate resistance
-Less microphonic
-higher transconductance
-more drive current capability
-lower mu
-greater input headroom

In other words "horses for courses".
 
I agree Mr.Avery Fisher did this Correctly but still interesting to know why there are other choices.
 
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Kegger was not a fan of 12AX7s and actively sought other drivers he felt had better curves and sonics. He felt 12AX7s were like McDonald's hamburgers; everybody knows them and they'll do, but there's so much more out there.

When he reworked my Magnavox 8802, he redesigned the circuit away ftom 6EU7 drivers, a 6V 12AX7, to 6GH8As and subs, particularily 6BL8s which he liked alot.

I would tend to look more to amps built by guys who love music, than those constrained by bean counters and marketing guys more concerned with revenues...
 
Thanks everyone for the help. I see the 6GH8A's come up a lot as a replacement for the 7199. I have a couple of Dynaco's - one already swapped to the 6GH8A and one waiting for me to rebuild with Dave G's boards.

Just trying to understand why certain tubes are used over others.


Kegger was not a fan of 12AX7s and actively sought other drivers he felt had better curves and sonics. He felt 12AX7s were like McDonald's hamburgers; everybody knows them and they'll do, but there's so much more out there.

When he reworked my Magnavox 8802, he redesigned the circuit away ftom 6EU7 drivers, a 6V 12AX7, to 6GH8As and subs, particularily 6BL8s which he liked alot.

I would tend to look more to amps built by guys who love music, than those constrained by bean counters and marketing guys more concerned with revenues...

Unfortunately I wasn't here when Kegger was here, but I might use one of his designs for a build. I have a 600-0-600 200ma PT, and some in the DYI forum said to make a high powered SE amp. Looking in the sticky, I see he seemed to be a fan of SE amps?

I too have an 8804 (bought a month ago); it has a broken socket and had been messed with. Do you have the schematic of your reworked 8802? If not I plan on following Dave G's Rx for the 8802 for the rebuild.

Thanks.
 
The 12AX7 is a high mu triode, with a high amplification factor and high plate resistance. It is suitable for situations needing lots of gain, and high(ish) output impedance. Examples would be microphone amplifiers, tone control amplifiers, phono amplifiers, and the input stage of power amplifiers.

The 12AU7 is a low mu triode, with a low amplification factor, and lower output impedance - it's useful for situations which involve driving a capacitive load like a long patch cord, or driving the grids of large output tubes. It is also excellent as a voltage amplifier stage where a moderate amount of gain is needed, for example in a line level preamp.

The 7199 is a triode/pentode, which contains one half which is very similar to half of a 12AU7, and the other is a high gain pentode, capable of much more gain than the 12AX7. This tube is the reason why Dynaco could get away with using one driver tube and not sacrifice performance too badly in the ST-70.

The 6GH8 is a television tube, and was used by the boat load by RCA in colour TVs in the 1960s. It was used in the sync circuitry, colour demod, etc. It is similar enough to the 7199 it can be used as a functional substitute now that the 7199 is rare and costly.

There are hundreds of other tube types, all tailored to a specific application. While it would be possible to use the 12AX7 for everything, you'd end up sacrificing performance big time. Same logic as wearing a single pair of tennis shoes summer, winter, rain, fall, to your job interview and then taking stuff to the dump. Yes you could do it, but is it a good idea? Thing about guitar amps, is they have very different performance requirements than hi-fi amps, so using only the 12AX7 doesn't leave a lot on the table performance wise.
 
Or, why not use 12AX7's for everything?

I come from a guitar amp background. Wondering why you would use anything but the 12AX7?

Granted, some designs came out before this tube was produced. But is there a "tone" reason to use other tube types?


Thanks.
For "Hifi", performance is determined by linearity and unlike guitar amps tone is not a primary concern. In commercial or manufacturing of tube audio, many factors govern decision making. Biggest point is the ability to make a profit and so straying away from an ubiquitous tube like the 12ax7 or 12au7 or 6dj8 can be a money loser. For a DIY'er , there are so many tubes that can be used to make a great performing circuit and the ability to make something different and for a lot less money is what makes this hobby so worthwhile.
 
Yes, the 6SN7 seems to be popular, but I can't understand why it would be chosen over 9 pin designs. Did they never make a 9 pin version of the 6SN7?

I know on ebay I think someone makes a replacement board for the Dynaco ST-70 with three 6SN7's in it. My ST-70 can't handle the extra current because it has the smaller PT. Would this be a good tone upgrade, to upgrade both the PT and the driver board?
 
Yes, the 6SN7 seems to be popular, but I can't understand why it would be chosen over 9 pin designs. Did they never make a 9 pin version of the 6SN7?

I know on ebay I think someone makes a replacement board for the Dynaco ST-70 with three 6SN7's in it. My ST-70 can't handle the extra current because it has the smaller PT. Would this be a good tone upgrade, to upgrade both the PT and the driver board?

One word - linearity. If you're interested, read the RCA tube manual section on resistance-capacitance coupled voltage amplifiers. There are formulas for figuring out distortion graphically from the load line and tube curves. Th 6SN7 has extremely low distortion, and is therefore a very popular tube for audio use. It is better than the 12AU7 in this regard.

The 6SN7GTB has higher ratings than the 9 pin version, and was made longer, and is easier to find as good NOS.

The Dynaco ST-70 uses a high level of negative feedback, which makes small differences in tube linearity less relevant than in some other designs. I wouldn't bother to modify it to use 6SN7 tubes, better to keep it as-is, it is a very very good design.
 
One word - linearity. If you're interested, read the RCA tube manual section on resistance-capacitance coupled voltage amplifiers. There are formulas for figuring out distortion graphically from the load line and tube curves. Th 6SN7 has extremely low distortion, and is therefore a very popular tube for audio use. It is better than the 12AU7 in this regard.

The 6SN7GTB has higher ratings than the 9 pin version, and was made longer, and is easier to find as good NOS.

The Dynaco ST-70 uses a high level of negative feedback, which makes small differences in tube linearity less relevant than in some other designs. I wouldn't bother to modify it to use 6SN7 tubes, better to keep it as-is, it is a very very good design.
Thanks. I'll check this out.

I plan on making a home-brew so this info will be helpful.
 
Yes, the 6SN7 seems to be popular, but I can't understand why it would be chosen over 9 pin designs. Did they never make a 9 pin version of the 6SN7?

I know on ebay I think someone makes a replacement board for the Dynaco ST-70 with three 6SN7's in it. My ST-70 can't handle the extra current because it has the smaller PT. Would this be a good tone upgrade, to upgrade both the PT and the driver board?
Octal sockets are easier to work with than the 9 pin minis.
 
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