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Primaluna Dialog Premium - upgrade or what would be a further setup up?

vintagegroov

vintagegroov

Member
I bought a Primaluna Dialog Premium tube pre-amp earlier this year and I'm very happy with it. I'm just curious if anyone has done upgrades on these particular units, and if so what were the upgrades and the improvement? Was the cost of the upgrades worth it for the improvements?

For those people that did not upgrade theirs, and moved on to something else, what did you find was the next step (or two) up in sound and performance?
 
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What I have done to the Primaluna Dialog Premium HP is Upgrade the gain tubes films from Mundorf MCap EVO Silver Gold Oil to Mundorf MCap Supreme Silver Oil. The upgrade to my ears has a spacious and detailed sound which makes the music sound more alive and juicy. I also replaced KT-150's to KT-170's.

PLUpdate.jpegPMKT170a.jpeg
 
vintagegroov said:
I bought a Primaluna Dialog Premium tube pre-amp earlier this year and I'm very happy with it. I'm just curious if anyone has done upgrades on these particular units, and if so what were the upgrades and the improvement? Was the cost of the upgrades worth it for the improvements?

For those people that did not upgrade theirs, and moved on to something else, what did you find was the next step (or two) up in sound and performance?
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for upgrades;

1. replace the chinese tubes with NOS or UOS US or Euro 12AU7s or 5814s. Pretty inexpensive. There are tons of them on ebay. Just make sure you buy from a seller who has tons of feedback and actually tests the tubes with a good tester.
2. replace the coupling caps with Jupiter foil (alum or better yet copper foil caps).
3. add 0.01uf film bypass to the main power supply bypass caps which were usually 10uf SCR caps.

Even with all the upgrades the next step up would be a used VTL TL-6.5 series 1. More dynamic than PL, better frequency extremes than PL.
If you watch for them you can usually pick up a used copy for a bit more than what the PL preamp cost new.

Another option would be one of the VAC reference preamps.
 
vintagegroov said:
Thanks for the info. Are any other brands/names I can look at? Price would be under $4000, and I don't mind used.
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that would be used. At that price point even used, pretty tough to beat. most other pres at this price are not fully balanced and fully differential. All are single ended. But you could look for one of the ARCs, or Asthetix fully balanced units but might be tough to find one for under 4K. Nothing new for 4K that comes to mind is comparable.
 
mcgjohn said:
that would be used. At that price point even used, pretty tough to beat. most other pres at this price are not fully balanced and fully differential. All are single ended. But you could look for one of the ARCs, or Asthetix fully balanced units but might be tough to find one for under 4K. Nothing new for 4K that comes to mind is comparable.
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Hi, do you mean the Primaluna would be hard to beat, or the other pre-amps you mentioned?
 
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vintagegroov said:
Hi, do you mean the Primaluna would be hard to beat, or the other pre-amps you mentioned?
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Sorry I was not clear. At that price point (4K) it will be pretty tough to outperform the VTL TL 6.5 preamp. Comparing the PL pre to the VTL 6.5 is a 2 second test, the VTL is more dynamic, better imaging, better depth. To beat the TL 6.5 you will have to get north of 10K (used prices, not new) to do it.
 
I recently had a chance to A/B a Cary SLP-2002 (upgraded w/tubes/caps) and AR SL25 mkII tube pre-amps. The AR was nice, very detailed, but to me sounded more like a SS pre-amp and it sometimes sounded a tad sterile. The Cary added more fatness and warmth, but it felt forced, it was difficult to actually enjoy the music with it. After a few songs I really couldn't take much more of it. I would attribute some (or maybe even all of this) to it's high gain. Then we hooked up my PL; I found I enjoyed it the most overall as it mostly combined the positive parts of the other 2 pre-amps without the negatives.

To add to the event; my wife was upstairs the entire time and did not know which order I was A/Bing the pre-amps. I played the same songs for each, so the 1st round of songs sounded good but not great. The next round was almost unbearable, and the 3rd she liked the most. When I told her the order she was surprised, thinking the AR was the last one tested and therefore sounded the best.

So what does this small event say? That the Primaluna (with my gear and room) has a sound I really enjoy, that compared to some other pre-amps in a similar or higher price range it can hold it's own very well, and nothing stood out as glaringly weak or lacking.

Secondly; a few weeks back I heard another friend's system, and after he swapped out the tubes on his integrated tube amp for some others he had, and we played the same track, the sound was instantly better. I was expecting some change, but not on that level. So just a tube swap was impressive.
 
vintagegroov said:
Secondly; a few weeks back I heard another friend's system, and after he swapped out the tubes on his integrated tube amp for some others he had, and we played the same track, the sound was instantly better. I was expecting some change, but not on that level. So just a tube swap was impressive
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I would start with some tube rolling. Pl's are known to be very receptive to the nuances of different tube's. I've had my DP pre for a few years now, one thing I found out is installing a well matched quad for the outside driver sockets. If you can get all 8 triodes within 10% of each other it will make a difference. I prefer NOS to new production, and US NOS brands (RCA, GE, Sylvania) can still be found at reasonable prices. I just picked up a matched quad (within 3%) of Sylvania green label branded Baldwin at Barter Town for less than new production JJ's. I could go on and on about game tubes. But in general I look for military or industrial grade tubes. I like the 5814 & 6169. But I have tried some 12AU7's that made my system Sing. Just have fun finding something that's right for your system.

I did read about someone who did a V-Cap upgrade to a DP integrated who said it made a significant change / cost $2k.
 
vintagegroov said:
I recently had a chance to A/B a Cary SLP-2002 (upgraded w/tubes/caps) and AR SL25 mkII tube pre-amps. The AR was nice, very detailed, but to me sounded more like a SS pre-amp and it sometimes sounded a tad sterile. The Cary added more fatness and warmth, but it felt forced, it was difficult to actually enjoy the music with it. After a few songs I really couldn't take much more of it. I would attribute some (or maybe even all of this) to it's high gain. Then we hooked up my PL; I found I enjoyed it the most overall as it mostly combined the positive parts of the other 2 pre-amps without the negatives.

To add to the event; my wife was upstairs the entire time and did not know which order I was A/Bing the pre-amps. I played the same songs for each, so the 1st round of songs sounded good but not great. The next round was almost unbearable, and the 3rd she liked the most. When I told her the order she was surprised, thinking the AR was the last one tested and therefore sounded the best.

So what does this small event say? That the Primaluna (with my gear and room) has a sound I really enjoy, that compared to some other pre-amps in a similar or higher price range it can hold it's own very well, and nothing stood out as glaringly weak or lacking.

Secondly; a few weeks back I heard another friend's system, and after he swapped out the tubes on his integrated tube amp for some others he had, and we played the same track, the sound was instantly better. I was expecting some change, but not on that level. So just a tube swap was impressive.
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The PL preamps can be easily beaten performance wise but will be pretty tough to do without spending 5 figures. Most of the other options are more of a sideways step.
as for the PL, lots of options on upgrading coupling caps, adding bypasses to the 10uf film bypass power supply caps etc. The PL EVO series offers a really good starting point for many users if you can do a bit of work.
 
Just visited a guy with a nice stereo and saw that his pre-amp is a Placette linestage which runs through a pair of SS mono block power amps. I actually thought the pre-amp had tubes. It sounded pretty amazing; detailed, and with a nice air of naturalness to it.
 
I'm curious; is there a difference between the Primaluna Dialog Premium Output section Out1 and Out2? I have my mono power amps in Out1. Just wondering if there's a different 'current?' out of 1 vs 2? Is one meant for subwoofers?

On another note; I've been reading up on a tube pre-amp built by Don Sachs. The reviews sound very positive about overall performance and sound. Anyone have experience with his pre-amps?
 
Well I made my decision, definitely not where I thought it would go but I'm very happy with the result.

Recently I had the chance to try a Bent Audio Tap-X passive linestage. I've seen it compared to the Placette active linestage I'd heard recently, which impressed me. Now I had a chance to try one in my setup and room.

I was not prepared for how it would sound. Everything sounds better; more detailed, yet totally organic and realistic. I won't even say warmth as that's not what it has, the music just sounds accessible and engaging. I can hear so much deeper into the recordings like never before. Volume was the same whether Tuner, CD player or phono. Bass is tighter and deeper as well. I now own the pre-amp.
 
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