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Pro-Ject The Classic: very disappointing

brotherly: Your post isn't the first one I read about issues with the new The Classic. I think it was over on VinylAsylum, where a buyer reported that his unit suffered from a loose platter bearing, and two cartridge clips weren't fixed correctly and had dropped off (that thread from should have been from around end of April...). But yours and that thread are so far the only problem threads on The Classic I'm aware of.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
It's fascinating to me how hard it seems to be to produce a quality table nowadays.

When you can get better, more reliable performance from a 35 year old $40 CL score than a $1000 new table, I find it really hard to understand why nobody has managed to break this pattern. Sure, turntables are deceptively simple, but in the end it's a spinning platter. We can do this in countless other venues, to amazing precision.

But you're gonna put 180g of petroleum byproduct on it? Oh, well the it's going to grind, wobble and whine. Why?

Can't we just get an engineer to design a rotating platter that's stable and consistent, without telling them it's for a turntable? Maybe that's our solution...
 
.The best buy on a new high quality belt drive table I think is the VPI scout JR, maybe last years models $1299 at soundstage direct, and a few other places, amazingly simple construction and design with the large motor completely separated from the solid plinth, fantastic tone arm. nice size aluminum platter. a true lifetime table. comes with a upgradeable ortofon red for now, I believe the VPI tables are also sound tested before shipping. This is a huge step from the rest in the $1000k range. except for the cart.
 
I am a very disappointed Classic owner to. I purchased mine because I wanted something new but still had that classic look. From the outside it looks beautiful and I was happy until, I change cartridges. The tonearm sits in a well that has very little clearance. To adjust the tonearm height you have to use this cut off Allen key that strips to easily. I had to make a new on out of a higher quality Allen key. The tonearm wires are very small and flimsy, The cart. clips were on so tight it felt like they were glued on. And you guest it, two of them broke off. I tried soldering them and the wire just melts its so small. I got so frustrated I put it in the closet and bought another vintage turntable which is twice the turntable as the Classic for less money....
 
So it's a bad turntable because the included Allen key is too soft and you mangled the headshell wires with brute force and an oversized soldering iron. Clearly the manufacturer's fault.

I have no dog in this fight but when I read threads like this I do wonder what happened to common sense.
 
bang4buck said:
So it's a bad turntable because the included Allen key is too soft and you mangled the headshell wires with brute force and an oversized soldering iron. Clearly the manufacturer's fault.

I have no dog in this fight but when I read threads like this I do wonder what happened to common sense.
Click to expand...

It went away when the mfg made it difficult to adjust the table. Common sense is to make a table user friendly. Allen head set screws are not user friendly.
 
loudnoises said:
It's fascinating to me how hard it seems to be to produce a quality table nowadays.

When you can get better, more reliable performance from a 35 year old $40 CL score than a $1000 new table, I find it really hard to understand why nobody has managed to break this pattern. Sure, turntables are deceptively simple, but in the end it's a spinning platter. We can do this in countless other venues, to amazing precision.

But you're gonna put 180g of petroleum byproduct on it? Oh, well the it's going to grind, wobble and whine. Why?

Can't we just get an engineer to design a rotating platter that's stable and consistent, without telling them it's for a turntable? Maybe that's our solution...
Click to expand...
To me, it's a combination of manufacturing infrastructure and economies of scale. So many of the past "big" turntable brands had parent companies that were connected to industries like aircraft construction and/or government contract work that fabricating precision turntable platters and bearings with insanely tight tolerances was child's play. And that's not even thinking of OEM work that would also bring in extra cash. Making engines for 747's was way more difficult and expensive than balancing a seven pound chunk of aluminum so the turntable side of the business was able to access know-how, materials, and tools today's turntable manufacturer's can only dream of.

Today though? It's a tough road, especially when you don't have a mega-corporation behind you to help. (And even if you did, bean counters may negate any kind of trickle-down advantages such a relationship might otherwise have.)

You ask how come "they" can't do it today...I ask how are "they" able to have the quality they do have, as dodgy as it may be sometimes!
 
loudnoises said:
Allen head set screws are not user friendly.
Click to expand...

Wow. I guess Thorens, Linn, SME had it wrong for decades.

An engineer wouldn't choose a rarely-needed screw based on user friendliness, but based on the available space. Allen screws have vastly superior characteristics compared to other screw heads of the same outer diameter.
 
bang4buck said:
Wow. I guess Thorens, Linn, SME had it wrong for decades.

An engineer wouldn't choose a rarely-needed screw based on user friendliness, but based on the available space. Allen screws have vastly superior characteristics compared to other screw heads of the same outer diameter.
Click to expand...

the only other option at <1/8" is going to be slotted, which at that size, is quite superior for use. Allen would only be better if you're using a torque driver and need numerically precise torque.

Unless you feel 99% of eyeglass makers have gotten it wrong.

It's a moot argument, the hardware failed this user and apparently others when used in this application.
Maybe they need to up quality to the levels of Thorens and Linn?:idea:
 
bang4buck said:
So it's a bad turntable because the included Allen key is too soft and you mangled the headshell wires with brute force and an oversized soldering iron. Clearly the manufacturer's fault.

I have no dog in this fight but when I read threads like this I do wonder what happened to common sense.
Click to expand...
How in the hell would you know if I used brute force? I have been in this hobby fifty years and have never had this problem. Do you have a Classic turntable? Have you tried adjusting the tonearm with a Allen key that was obviously inferior for a $1100.00 turntable? I think not...
 
That's not what I said. If you would care to check post #27, I was referring to tearing the tags off the wires. That indeed is brute force and I don't need to be present, nor in possession of the same model TT, to call it what it is.
 
Interesting read about this table. Seems the lower tables from the current crop of turntable manufacturers are just tables thrown out to the masses and not well built machines. Two of the three sellers I checked into implied the 2M silver has silver coils but the Ortofon site indicates they are silver coated copper. One retailer stated not copper but silver, huh, seem the sellers are in the same camp as the manufacturer pushing product, not necessarily quality.

I think the OP stated his case about this table, dismissing two of them for issues that a turntable should not have. Moving on is probably a great idea. For a grand a table should work. Good luck with getting a nice machine.
 
bang4buck said:
That's not what I said. If you would care to check post #27, I was referring to tearing the tags off the wires. That indeed is brute force and I don't need to be present, nor in possession of the same model TT, to call it what it is.
Click to expand...
How do you know it is brute force? Have you seen or felt the wire on the tonearm? NO!
 
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