Proper cartridge alignment Nagaoka MP-110

[entreat11]

Hello!

Hope everyone is staying safe and enjoying their stereos durning this time!

I had a question I wanted to find out the best way to align the Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge. I am using a technics 1200MK2 with the cart and stylus mounted on a technics head-shell.

I used the the technics hanger tool when i mounted the cartridge. I have had the cartridge over a month and i feel like the performance has gotten worse lately. I feel like I am having a lot of distortion as it gets middle to end of the record, some records are worse than others.

When I mounted this I didn't have any of the fancy tools other than the technics hanger, I pretty much eyeballed everything. I tried to play with tone arm height and vary the weight between 1.5 and almost 3, also played a bit with the antiskate.

Any ideas as to what it could be? When I put another needle on like an Ortofon Night Club bannanna stylus i feel like I am getting much better sound.

Anyways sorry for the long rant.

Throw some ideas at me that I can check for.

Thank you
Michael

 

[Final_Baton]

the stylus is held by friction so maybe try gently pushing it back against the cart body? I do that every now and then.

maybe the screws weren't tight enough and the cart moved? you could re-check the overhang with the gauge and see if the cart is still square in the headshell.

is the stylus clean?

what antiskate value do you use?

for the right VTA position to use : it shouldn't be hard to find. I remember seeing people talk about their finding on here and on vinylengine. I don't have a SL-1200 so can't speak for the VTA. but I have an SL-D2 and from my experience, theses Nagaoka carts are an excellent match for the Technics arm. So don't give up.

 

[entreat11]

the stylus is held by friction so maybe try gently pushing it back against the cart body? I do that every now and then.

maybe the screws weren't tight enough and the cart moved? you could re-check the overhang with the gauge and see if the cart is still square in the headshell.

is the stylus clean?

what antiskate value do you use?

for the right VTA position to use : it shouldn't be hard to find. I remember seeing people talk about their finding on here and on vinylengine. I don't have a SL-1200 so can't speak for the VTA. but I have an SL-D2 and from my experience, theses Nagaoka carts are an excellent match for the Technics arm. So don't give up.

Thanks for your response. I tried to use the overhang again to check it. The way i am doing it trying to center the stylus in the middle and have it as close to the top of the overhang. I tried antiskate of 2 along with having the counter weight at 2 as well. I also move it to 2.5 and such and i did notice changes as moving back and forth but. I just took these pics and tried again. Right now height is at 2 and weight and antiskate are at 2 as well.

 

[ConradH]

IMO, the headshell fixtures aren't the ultimate means of alignment, but they're good enough for most purposes. I don't know what the overhang stick thing is. Whenever I sense that loss of quality it's usually because the stylus is dirty. Do you have a small 10X or 20X loupe? I usually end up wet cleaning with alcohol on a small brush. Not dripping wet, just slightly moistened. Probably against the manufacturer's recommendations, but when they pick up crud, dry cleaning won't fix it. If you have a problem in the middle of the record it might also be the arm hanging up due to wires or some other mechanical problem.

 

[entreat11]

IMO, the headshell fixtures aren't the ultimate means of alignment, but they're good enough for most purposes. I don't know what the overhang stick thing is. Whenever I sense that loss of quality it's usually because the stylus is dirty. Do you have a small 10X or 20X loupe? I usually end up wet cleaning with alcohol on a small brush. Not dripping wet, just slightly moistened. Probably against the manufacturer's recommendations, but when they pick up crud, dry cleaning won't fix it. If you have a problem in the middle of the record it might also be the arm hanging up due to wires or some other mechanical problem.

Thanks for the reply. Previously I did clean it but yes only dry cleaning with a brush and was pretty sure it was clean.

I tried what you said with the alcohol and a small brush and it sounds much better now. I was really noticing the distortion on one record in particular and that and i put that record / track back on and it sounds much better than it did before.

I will keep an eye on it, hopefully that should be it.

Thank you both for your help.

 

[trinhsman]

I use a Geodisc. It will get you 90+% of the way there. You can also print protractors from online that will do a decent job. I wish you well.

 

[benricci]

For starters, you're using the overhang gauge incorrectly, which isn't even the main issue. If you plan on using that tool, the tip of the stylus (the diamond TIP, not the middle of the cantilever) should line up with the edge of the overhang tool.

That said, I'd ditch that tool altogether and use a proper alignment protractor (yes, even for 1200 decks where people swear by that little plastic tool). Alignment methods are all over the internet for free to print out, and since the MP-110 is essentially all right angles, it's incredibly easy to align squarely.

You never set up your cartridge properly and it sounds like you weren't cleaning it regularly either, so it's no wonder it doesn't sound great.

Google "Stevenson Alignment Protractor" and use that as a starting point to properly set up your cartridge. Then report back.

 

[Final_Baton]

IME the anti-skate on Technics decks needs to always be a bit lower than tracking force.

If tracking force is at 2, then anti-skate probably needs to ba 1.75 or 1.8

If you put it at 2 AS for 2 VTF, it'll be too much. and one channel won't have enough presence and the other will have too much

so try say 2 VTF + 1.8 anti-skate for a start.
and then experiment .
try other combos such as higher one (say 2.25 VTF + 2 AS). and try a lower one too (1.75 VTF + 1.6 AS)

listen carefully with headphones, focus on the left channel and if you start with a low AS and increase it, you will notice the bass gets tighter and more defined. but past a point, it becomes overdone and becomes muted. you could focus on other instruments too, I just find bass guitar easier to analyze. And headphones are not required but they help.

The overhang gauge worked great for me btw, with my Nag on my Technics.

 

[entreat11]

For starters, you're using the overhang gauge incorrectly, which isn't even the main issue. If you plan on using that tool, the tip of the stylus (the diamond TIP, not the middle of the cantilever) should line up with the edge of the overhang tool.

That said, I'd ditch that tool altogether and use a proper alignment protractor (yes, even for 1200 decks where people swear by that little plastic tool). Alignment methods are all over the internet for free to print out, and since the MP-110 is essentially all right angles, it's incredibly easy to align squarely.

You never set up your cartridge properly and it sounds like you weren't cleaning it regularly either, so it's no wonder it doesn't sound great.

Google "Stevenson Alignment Protractor" and use that as a starting point to properly set up your cartridge. Then report back.

Thanks for the advice. I will take a look at the "Stevenson Alignment Protractor", i believe i checked this on vinyl engine previously. I will do this when I am able to print it out.
As far as the cleaning I was cleaning it but with a brush no solution or anything was being used.
For now I will readjust the stylus as recommend as well.

 

[benricci]

Thanks for the advice. I will take a look at the "Stevenson Alignment Protractor", i believe i checked this on vinyl engine previously. I will do this when I am able to print it out.
As far as the cleaning I was cleaning it but with a brush no solution or anything was being used.
For now I will readjust the stylus as recommend as well.

For stylus cleaning, I also recommend the Onzow blob thingie (not the technical name, I’m pretty sure). Works like a charm and super simple to use.

No affiliation, but here’s a link. https://www.turntablelab.com/products/onzow-zerodust-stylus-cleaner

Let us know how the alignment goes.

 

[entreat11]

IME the anti-skate on Technics decks needs to always be a bit lower than tracking force.

If tracking force is at 2, then anti-skate probably needs to ba 1.75 or 1.8

If you put it at 2 AS for 2 VTF, it'll be too much. and one channel won't have enough presence and the other will have too much

so try say 2 VTF + 1.8 anti-skate for a start.
and then experiment .
try other combos such as higher one (say 2.25 VTF + 2 AS). and try a lower one too (1.75 VTF + 1.6 AS)

listen carefully with headphones, focus on the left channel and if you start with a low AS and increase it, you will notice the bass gets tighter and more defined. but past a point, it becomes overdone and becomes muted. you could focus on other instruments too, I just find bass guitar easier to analyze. And headphones are not required but they help.

The overhang gauge worked great for me btw, with my Nag on my Technics.

Thanks for the help with that, I will give this a try as well, I did not test it in that way and fine tune it, i will give this a try and see if I am able to hear a difference.

 

[Final_Baton]

I had not seen your pics of the overhang placed on the gauge. That is definitely wrong and most probably the culprit. As benricci said. it's the stylus TIP that needs to align with the mark on the gauge. You're probably off by 2 mm which is pretty substantial, definitely impedes performance

 

[entreat11]

Yeah I re-did it upon the feedback. This is the best I think I can get it for now.

 

[Final_Baton]

It's looking great. Let us know what sound you're getting now

 

[Mr Boochie]

IMO, the headshell fixtures aren't the ultimate means of alignment, but they're good enough for most purposes. I don't know what the overhang stick thing is. Whenever I sense that loss of quality it's usually because the stylus is dirty. Do you have a small 10X or 20X loupe? I usually end up wet cleaning with alcohol on a small brush. Not dripping wet, just slightly moistened. Probably against the manufacturer's recommendations, but when they pick up crud, dry cleaning won't fix it. If you have a problem in the middle of the record it might also be the arm hanging up due to wires or some other mechanical problem.

I use one of those protractors, to measure two points on the record's radius. I have yet to find a cartridge which works anywhere near the protractor's alignment, using the overhang thing.

 

[Music2Myear]

I use one of those protractors, to measure two points on the record's radius. I have yet to find a cartridge which works anywhere near the protractor's alignment, using the overhang thing.

View attachment 1850844 View attachment 1850845

After you have aligned with this method if you put the overhang tool on how far out is it and is it forward or backwards. I would like to maybe address my alignment. thanks

 

[Mr Boochie]

After you have aligned with this method if you put the overhang tool on how far out is it and is it forward or backwards. I would like to maybe address my alignment. thanks

Around 3-4mm longer than the overhang tool. This is for that Ortofon cartridge in photo.

BTW. I measure the overhang right to the tip of stylus. Right a the Vee-point. Your photo is a little short (around 3mm?).

 

[entreat11]

It's looking great. Let us know what sound you're getting now

Thank you! The sounds is doing better, much better than it was, i think that and the stylus being dirty were my key problems. I usually use my finger to clean the sylus i always did that with the ortofons, but i figured with this one i would try to be good and use a brush, but i never used fluid so i iwll start to do that from now on.

 

[entreat11]

Around 3-4mm longer than the overhang tool. This is for that Ortofon cartridge in photo.

BTW. I measure the overhang right to the tip of stylus. Right a the Vee-point. Your photo is a little short (around 3mm?).

Thanks for your reply.

Yes that was the first one that I posed, I re- aligned it again when I was told that it was incorrect and here is what it looks like now.

 

[Mr Boochie]

I would still compare the position to a protractor. I have yet to find a overhang adjusted cartridge agree with protractor settings. Outer null point is close, but inner is off.