Purpose of record clamps?
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qpagoda
Super Member
People use record clamps / weights for different purposes. I use a record clamp to flatten warped records. I will not permanently flatten a record, but it will flatten the convex side while it is playing. If you find a device that will lift the concave side after the warped record is flipped, let me know. 
Others claim an improvement in sound by somehow "coupling" the record to the platter. Not sure how that works. Probably won't work on my mid-fi equipment.
Others claim an improvement in sound by somehow "coupling" the record to the platter. Not sure how that works. Probably won't work on my mid-fi equipment.
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njb182
Active Member
People use record clamps / weights for different purposes. I use a record clamp to flatten warped records. I will not permanently flatten a record, but it will flatten the convex side while it is playing. If you find a device that will lift the concave side after the warped record is flipped, let me know.
Others claim an improvement in sound by somehow "coupling" the record to the platter. Not sure how that works. Probably won't work on my mid-fi equipment.
Do you think a record clamp will make a difference in my system?
Technics SL-1200 MK2
Denon DL-160
Marantz SR2000
Klipsch RB-51 Speakers
Old speakers from the 80s. (All that is on them is Studio Lab Series)
qpagoda
Super Member
I don't know.
A home brew record clamp is easy to make. Some people use a short piece of rubber tubing that is just a little smaller than the spindle. Slip it down over the spindle to hold the record in place. I use one of those big clamp type paper clips.
Make a clamp, give it a try and see if it improves the sound.
A home brew record clamp is easy to make. Some people use a short piece of rubber tubing that is just a little smaller than the spindle. Slip it down over the spindle to hold the record in place. I use one of those big clamp type paper clips.
Make a clamp, give it a try and see if it improves the sound.
Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
The fact that a clamp can flatten some warped records is just a bonus. Coupling the record to the platter can improve sound quality. It's a stabilizing effect. I use mine on thin records and get a somewhat cleaner sound with better/tighter bass.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Usually one of two, or both purposes, to couple the record to platter. and to eliminate-lessen record warpage-dishing.
Clamps have one advantage over weights, in that a clamp can vary the amount of pressure exerted upon the record. A clamp can be relatively light, yet exert considerably more downforce than a weight.
Heavy weights/clamps can add rotational mass, which might be a benefit for belt driven tables with already heavy platters. but for direct drive tables, this may be a detriment, hindering-straining the motor, and as well, straining the bearings on those motors.
Some turntable systems, such as VPI, have special designed Platters, in which there is a depression at the label area. Thus when correctly clamped with the correct clamp, the record contacts the platter fully, from label to rim. The exceptions are lip warps, and that was one benefit of Periphery Clamps-Rings.
A flat record does sound better than one that is see-sawing up and down. That see-sawing can be easily heard. And as well, that see-sawing places more uncessesary up, and down movement to a Cartridge's Cantilever Suspension System. Mark
Clamps have one advantage over weights, in that a clamp can vary the amount of pressure exerted upon the record. A clamp can be relatively light, yet exert considerably more downforce than a weight.
Heavy weights/clamps can add rotational mass, which might be a benefit for belt driven tables with already heavy platters. but for direct drive tables, this may be a detriment, hindering-straining the motor, and as well, straining the bearings on those motors.
Some turntable systems, such as VPI, have special designed Platters, in which there is a depression at the label area. Thus when correctly clamped with the correct clamp, the record contacts the platter fully, from label to rim. The exceptions are lip warps, and that was one benefit of Periphery Clamps-Rings.
A flat record does sound better than one that is see-sawing up and down. That see-sawing can be easily heard. And as well, that see-sawing places more uncessesary up, and down movement to a Cartridge's Cantilever Suspension System. Mark
vinylisfinal
Super Member
i always use one... cheap on the bay. the improvements can be seen and heard.. lessens woofer flutter, enables record to have a true flatter playing surface and i have also seen it to lessen feedback.
Tedrick
Infinity-phile
No.
Arkay
Lunatic Member
It's funny - I always see this as exactly the opposite, but when I think about it, we are both right!
For a belt drive like a Clearaudio Statement, Thorens Reference or any other with a big, massive platter, the added mass of a weight or clamp might be fine; and for a lower-end, modest DD TT, the weight would be added directly to the bearing and might be a detriment. So you are right...
But I usually think of how all those suspended belt-drive systems like the LP12, Ariston, AR, Systemdek and even some Thorens TTs can't handle excess weight; how it over-burdens the suspensions and sometimes the motors. They can only take lightweight clamps, not meaningful weights. Plus the added strain on the belt (increased wow and longer settle-down time) that higher mass causes.
Conversely, the platter on my GT-2000 already weighs 5.8 Kg (that is stock; the gunmetal option is significantly heavier); heavier than the platter on most common belt drives, and its momen of inertia is 1.2 TONS/cm2! You probably couldn't stop it turning with your hand on the side, without removing your fingerprints first, from the friction, so any commercial platter weight is negligible. The bearing on it is well over-engineered (Theophile leaves his on 24/7!) and could withstand a great deal more weight without significant wear. There are many other high-end DD TTs that are almost as robust, and carry heavy weights (including both center weights and rim clamps) with aplomb. Some of the high-end ones even have air bearings, which could probably withstand the weight of a fat Hell's Angel on his Harley before they'd complain!
Whether a bearing can withstand the extra weight without wearing excessively fast depends on the quality of the bearing itself. Belt-drive bearings can wear as fast or faster than DD bearings; it just depends on the particular bearing that the designer/manufacturer decided to use! The fact that the platter on a DD is part of the motor doesn't mean the maker used a more vulnerable bearing, although if one did wear out the bearing in one, replacement/repair would be more problematic than most common belt-drive platter bearings. But on the good DD TTs, the bearings are extremely high-quality, virtually frictionless (some are literally so), and durable, as are some higher-end belt-drive bearings.
So I think it depends on WHICH particular belt-drive or direct-drive TTs you have in mind; one cannot say that one type or the other is better-suited for a center weight, without considering the specific TT.
So we were both right, but with different TTs in mind! :yes:
When in doubt, use a clamp: easily as much coupling force, but without the risk of added weight ... UNLESS you KNOW your TT is okay with the weight, in which case you'll benefit from the additional rotational mass (increased inertial energy), especially from a ring clamp, which adds higher rotational inertia for the same weight, compared with a center weight/clamp.
Incidentally, I use weights (mostly Audio Technica ones, because that is what I have) on all my DD and idler-wheel TTs, and DIY clamps on my belt-drives. Has always seemed the way to do it, for me.
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131east23
...near Frank's Pizza!
This is interesting reading. It goes way beyond what I ever imagined a clamp or ring would do. Some of it may be hogwash, but it is interesting...
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttring.html
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttring.html
davidk5
Super Member
That's really cool ...
Below is a cut-and-paste from a post I made about a year and a half ago. What I've found since then is that even with the WTRP, I ended up preferring both the sound and the operational simplicity of forgoing the clamp and using a Linn felt mat on the platter of the WTRP. Art Dudley in his Stereophile review had mentioned he preferred this arrangement when he auditioned the VPI Scout, and the designer of the Neuance isolation platform (now retired) had written, "You'd be shocked as to how much of the Linn's expressive character is related to the mat. Put it on a Rega, Oracle, Michell, etc. etc. and that table will almost always take on more than a hint of a Linn-like presentation." I used an LP12 for 23 years prior to getting the Well Tempered, so that might have something to do with my preferences.
As others have noted, the particular turntable you're using may dictate whether a record clamp is useful or not. I tend to trust the manufacturer to best know his turntable design, and so use a clamp with my WTRP, but not with my LP12. It's interesting to read various manufacturers' claims for their products. Among the pro-clamp camp, I like Michell's explanation:
"LP records are warped. LP records vibrate along with the music as the stylus traces the groove. And LP records tend to move and bend under the pressure of the arm and cartridge when they are insufficiently supported. Michell turntables clamp the record to a hard platter. This flattens out warps, and it also couples the LP tightly to the platter so that internal resonances can be drained away from the stylus, as if the LP effectively is of a much higher thickness and rigidity."
Linn on the other hand, and at least for their turntable design, has a different take on clamps, including them in their list of "USELESS, DANGEROUS AND FOOLISH MODIFICATIONS OF THE LP12":
"The use of record weights, or clamps. This will not improve the performance of the turntable. The weight or clamp stresses the record. This stress causes the record to transmit energy in an unpredictable manner. Any time we can’t control the energy in the system we can expect performance to suffer. The sound will change (usually getting "brighter", but it will not be an improvement if you really listen to it.) On top of that, weights can destroy the main bearing, which is already working at a pressure of two and a half tons per square inch. Adding a two pound weight to the platter increases that pressure by twenty percent. Whatever improvement you may believe you hear will be immaterial as soon as the spindle drills through the thrust plate of the bearing."
As others have noted, the particular turntable you're using may dictate whether a record clamp is useful or not. I tend to trust the manufacturer to best know his turntable design, and so use a clamp with my WTRP, but not with my LP12. It's interesting to read various manufacturers' claims for their products. Among the pro-clamp camp, I like Michell's explanation:
"LP records are warped. LP records vibrate along with the music as the stylus traces the groove. And LP records tend to move and bend under the pressure of the arm and cartridge when they are insufficiently supported. Michell turntables clamp the record to a hard platter. This flattens out warps, and it also couples the LP tightly to the platter so that internal resonances can be drained away from the stylus, as if the LP effectively is of a much higher thickness and rigidity."
Linn on the other hand, and at least for their turntable design, has a different take on clamps, including them in their list of "USELESS, DANGEROUS AND FOOLISH MODIFICATIONS OF THE LP12":
"The use of record weights, or clamps. This will not improve the performance of the turntable. The weight or clamp stresses the record. This stress causes the record to transmit energy in an unpredictable manner. Any time we can’t control the energy in the system we can expect performance to suffer. The sound will change (usually getting "brighter", but it will not be an improvement if you really listen to it.) On top of that, weights can destroy the main bearing, which is already working at a pressure of two and a half tons per square inch. Adding a two pound weight to the platter increases that pressure by twenty percent. Whatever improvement you may believe you hear will be immaterial as soon as the spindle drills through the thrust plate of the bearing."
The only time I've ever used a "clamp", it's been a socket out of my toolbox, centered over the spindle to keep a flexidisc in firm contact with the platter mat. Aside from that, I never use them.
As I see it, clamps are used for:
1. Sonic improvements, as noted by other posters.
2. On turntables with plastic or glass platters, to prevent slippage.
3. Impress audiophile buddies with a shiny 'toy.'
As I see it, clamps are used for:
1. Sonic improvements, as noted by other posters.
2. On turntables with plastic or glass platters, to prevent slippage.
3. Impress audiophile buddies with a shiny 'toy.'