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Quadraphonic Setup - What's Needed?

David_NC

David_NC

Super Member
Recently, I started playing around with a JVC 4VR-5446 quad receiver and thought it might be kinda cool to try out a quad setup. I picked this up about 13 years ago from the original owner who was going into a care facility. His system consisted of a Dual 1228, the JVC receiver, a Kenwood top-load cassette deck, and 4 AR speakers, though I don't recall the models. Somebody grabbed the speakers before I could get them, but I did get the rest of the system.

JVC 4vr-5446.jpg

This model has a built-in CD-4 decoder, so I should just need a source. I have a couple TT's I can use, but I'm not sure if the cartridges will work with quad. I have the following: Ortofon TKS55E with an OM10 stylus, Grado F3+ (untested at this point), Sure M97xE, and one of the cheap generic AT's from China. Will any of these work? Any other ideas or suggestions for getting this working will be appreciated!
 
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CD-4 records require a special cartridge/stylus combo that can read up to 45k. The word 'shibata' come to mind. The hard part will be finding CD-4 records nowadays.

maybe this will help: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/cartridges-for-cd-4.222/

As for SQ and QS recordings. they are matrixed into two channels so any cartridge will do. Again, finding SQ or QS recordings today will probably be pretty slim.

But, they will find "something" in almost all records to stick in the rear channels.
 
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Dswankey said:
If it were me I would go straight to the source and see what the manuals have to say

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/jvc/4vr-5446.shtml

Potentially good information here too

https://www.google.com/search?q=JVC...XbB80KHbPKBOQQrQIoBHoECAMQBQ&biw=1280&bih=621
Click to expand...
I've done general searches and have the manual for the details on cartridge, but I really haven't found much helpful, in terms of cartridge.

the skipper said:
The hard part will be finding CD-4 records nowadays.

They require a special cartridge/stylus combo that can read up to 45k. The word 'shibata' come to mind

As for SQ and QS recordings. they are matrixed into two channels so any cartridge will do. Again, finding SQ or QS recordings today will probably be pretty slim.

But, they will find "something" in almost all records to stick in the rear channels.
Click to expand...
I'll look for details on shibata styli. There are a bunch of QS, SQ, and CD-4 records on eBay for near 'normal' record prices. From what I've read, the best is discrete CD-4 followed by QS and then SQ (semi-quad, as I read it being nicknamed LOL). Next step will be to see what I can find on a cartridge / stylus that will work. I may also try my DVD-A / SACD player. I should be able to set it for 4.0 output over the 5.1 analog jacks. I have a multichannel of each disc type around here somewhere. That's not using the internal decoders, obviously, but it'll be interesting to hear these in multichannel anyway.
 
doubt you'll get the intended four channels via SACD.

And, since quad (and CD-4) went the way of the dinosaur around 1975, i have no idea where you can find a new cartridge. did that TT you got come with one?

Again, QS and SQ don't require a special cartridge.
 
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I rode the quad train back in the early 70s. Honestly after all was said and done I mostly ended up playing stereo sources (mostly records) through the receiver using one of the quad matrix settings. The resulting sound was very good.

CD-4 was finicky, record selection was slim, and they were more expensive. Some of the matrix encoded records didn't really sound any better than just plain stereo records through 4 channels.

YMMV of course.
 
pioneer made test records for quad setups. I sold one that came with a vinyl lot from my friends dad. The Quad capable Best of doors that I have is insanely holographic on my 2channel. I don't know if that has anything to do with the quad or it is just a really good pressing
 
the only thing special you need for SQ and QS records is 4 speakers. for CD-4 you need a CD-4 compatible turntable that has low capacitance wiring, the Marantz 6300 and Dual1229Q are a couple. a shibata stylus or something that works with CD-4 im using a Grace F9E with mine right now that is compatible, i swap with a AT 15sa
CD-400B.jpg 20170218_130830 (800x450).jpg 20170320_085446.jpg
 
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Chrisxo55441 said:
forgot this, the cartridge needs to be capable of 30kHz for CD-4
Click to expand...
actually, 45 k. Two channels are in the lowest 15 k and the other two channels are multiplexed somewhere between 20 k and 45 k

"The CD‐4 cartridge and stylus must be capable of not only handling the normal range of human hearing‐20 to 15,000 Hz, but optimally up to 45,000 Hz—three times the range of normal human hearing. Engineers call the CD‐4 cartridge a compound transducer because of its ability to capture information in the regular stereo range of 20 to 15,000 Hz, but also to grab onto a high frequency FM carrier (subcarrier) located at 30,000 Hz."

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/12/02/...echnology-in-cartridge-design-transducer.html
 
MKF83 said:
pioneer made test records for quad setups. I sold one that came with a vinyl lot from my friends dad. The Quad capable Best of doors that I have is insanely holographic on my 2channel. I don't know if that has anything to do with the quad or it is just a really good pressing
Click to expand...

Or it’s haunted by the spirit of Jim Morrison. :)
 
MKF83 said:
pioneer made test records for quad setups. I sold one that came with a vinyl lot from my friends dad. The Quad capable Best of doors that I have is insanely holographic on my 2channel. I don't know if that has anything to do with the quad or it is just a really good pressing
Click to expand...

CD-4 records were pressed on much better vinyl than the garden variety records.

Chrisxo55441 said:
the only thing special you need for SQ and QS records is 4 speakers. for CD-4 you need a CD-4 compatible turntable that has low compliance wiring, the Marantz 6300 and Dual1229Q are a couple. a shibata stylus or something that works with CD-4 im using a Grace F9E with mine right now that is compatible, i swap with a AT 15sa
]
Click to expand...

For my first CD-4 setup I bought a Thorens TD-160 table, had it outfitted with low capacitance cable, and mounted up a AT15s cartridge. Big money back in those days (early/mid 70s) for that cartridge, especially since my wife accidently knocked the stylus off and I had to buy a replacement.
 
Have fun with your adventure into Quad. I am also building a Quad system like the one I heard when I was a kid. I have the Aki quad rtr, Aki As 980 monster quad amp the thing weighs 45 pounds has two power supplies, 4 Imperial 6 Marantz speakers. Still looking for a suitable TT. You do want a shibata stylus for cd 4 lp's they are expensive.
The matrix settings do sound pretty good with stereo sources.
 
the skipper said:
actually, 45 k. Two channels are in the lowest 15 k and the other two channels are multiplexed somewhere between 20 k and 45 k

"The CD‐4 cartridge and stylus must be capable of not only handling the normal range of human hearing‐20 to 15,000 Hz, but optimally up to 45,000 Hz—three times the range of normal human hearing. Engineers call the CD‐4 cartridge a compound transducer because of its ability to capture information in the regular stereo range of 20 to 15,000 Hz, but also to grab onto a high frequency FM carrier (subcarrier) located at 30,000 Hz."

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/12/02/...echnology-in-cartridge-design-transducer.html
Click to expand...

I'll take your word on that i was going on memory and the older i get the more i seem to be wrong when i do that
 
If you're itching to find out what quad sounds like with what you have there are a number of QS and SQ tracks on Youtube. I downloaded a number of them to listen through my QR-6500 and they worked just fine.
 
I'm a Quad head.

Multiple decoders, receivers and discrete quad tape machines ( reel to reel and 8 track)

I even have two of your JVC Nivco quad systems shrink wrapped away. Super cool recievers.

I humbly suggest you pass on CD4, grab the holy trinity of Pink Floyd quad LPs and decode them with a Surround Master.

( it's amazing how many lps are quad encoded, but not labeled Quad. Once the HW was installed in the recording studio, they just used it.

I suggest the following.

A Surround Master stand alone decoder, tied into your JVC.

http://involveaudio.com/product/surround-master-v2/


It software decodes SQ quad recordings, takes normal 2 channel recordings and discovers stuff that the audio engineer hid for us mortals. I use a multiple input switch, into the Surround Master, and pipe the 4 channels into my amps ( this month, a QRX-7001)

CD4 is terribly finicky, and non molested pressings are not easily visually distinguished.
 
The beauty of SQ and QS recordings is that they can be played in stereo and have no deleterious effects. Record stores loved them because they didn't need to keep a separate inventory for stereo and quad. Now CD-4, OTOH, required them to keep separate CD-4 and stereo inventories.
 
David_NC said:
Recently, I started playing around with a JVC 4VR-5446 quad receiver and thought it might be kinda cool to try out a quad setup. I picked this up about 13 years ago from the original owner who was going into a care facility. His system consisted of a Dual 1228, the JVC receiver, a Kenwood top-load cassette deck, and 4 AR speakers, though I don't recall the models. Somebody grabbed the speakers before I could get them, but I did get the rest of the system. View attachment 2273695
This model has a built-in CD-4 decoder, so I should just need a source. I have a couple TT's I can use, but I'm not sure if the cartridges will work with quad. I have the following: Ortofon TKS55E with an OM10 stylus, Grado F3+ (untested at this point), Sure M97xE, and one of the cheap generic AT's from China. Will any of these work? Any other ideas or suggestions for getting this working will be appreciated!
Click to expand...

None of your cartridges will work for CD-4. You need a cartridge with frequency response to 45 Khz, and a Shibata stylus. Your turntable needs low capacitance wiring for CD-4. And you need CD-4 records which still have CD-4 functionality intact. Your other Quad options would be Quadraphonic 8 track tapes, or Quadraphonic open reel formats.
 
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