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Question about Super Heresy

Dave MacKay

Dave MacKay

Active Member
Having recently completed the restoration and upgrading of my 1986 La Scalas, I'm looking for a new project. I've been intrigued by the Super Heresy that @JClaude1 developed and described on the Klipsch forum.

I'd prefer to build a Super Heresy from scratch since it might take quite a while to source a Heresy suitable for modifying.

Is there a repository for info about the Super Heresy? The thread I've seen on the Klipsch forum is 36 screens long and is at risk of disappearing.

Alternatively, is the Crites CS2 (https://critesspeakers.com/crites-speaker-style-2.html) a Super Heresy? It looks to be pretty appealing.

All comments and suggestions welcomed.
 
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Just commenting since I was looking at the Crites CS2 a minute ago and then saw your post. I’m curious about those and the other Crites speakers. It would be fun to build some sweet cabinets using those parts.

I’m looking for something a bit bigger than the CS3/Heresy but I don’t think Crites does anything with passive woofers like the Forte.

Wish I had the room for La Scalas.
 
ZagatoMan said:
Just commenting since I was looking at the Crites CS2 a minute ago and then saw your post. I’m curious about those and the other Crites speakers. It would be fun to build some sweet cabinets using those parts.

I’m looking for something a bit bigger than the CS3/Heresy but I don’t think Crites does anything with passive woofers like the Forte.

Wish I had the room for La Scalas.
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Have you considered a Cornscala? Crites offers 4 variants (i.e., the CS A/B/C/D). Have a look at https://critesspeakers.com/crites-speakers.html
 
My threads are documenting a Super Heresy 1.0 & 1.5. The formula is thus: Heresy 1 boxes (I used H700 Heresy Decorator Boxes). Eminence Delta Pro 12A woofers, although a Dayton Audio PA310 is a suitable replacement: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-PA310-8-12-Pro-Woofer-295-032. Type E network; alternately, a modified E/B network Hybrid will equalize the 3db increase from the woofer, to the squawker, but it will make the bass less pronounced, which I don't feel is a good thing. B-52 4" x 4-1/2" port: https://www.parts-express.com/B-52-4-Diameter-x-4-1-2-Long-Flared-Port-Kit-299-2368. Also, seal and insulate the cabinet. I used 1/8" by 3/8" neoprene foam tape on the horns and cabinet back and egg crate foam insulation; others have used fiberglass, polyfill, rock cotton and other products.
@Daveintn 's sMAHL tweeters: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325380777937?hash=item4bc234a7d1:g:N1sAAOSwb6FfXrU4
Version 1.5 uses a Klipsch K-701 horn lenses and K53 ferrite driver.
Version 2.0 uses Eminence Kappalite 3012LF neodymium woofers.

As @ClaudeJ1 would say, "you can use different parts, but you won't get the same result."

I believe @Daveintn has archived the super heresy thread and may eventually repost it in his blog at https://machinedaudiohornlens.com/

The Crites CS 2 undoubtedly offers improvements over the Heresy 1 and possibly versions 2 & 3, but it is not a Super Heresy.

I'm building my 2nd set using Crites motor boards, with some minor improvements and alterations to the stock Heresy cab construction, including bracing and other mods to make it a bit stiffer. I'll build them to 1.5 to start, but may eventually replace the woofers with Kappalites.
 
I'd also like to see a comprehensive Super Heresy thread detailed either here or at DIY Audio, but that would take some time to edit and distill. I definitely don't want to see all of Claude's data disappear. The process of development is nearly as interesting as the result.
 
Gigantic said:
The Crites CS 2 undoubtedly offers improvements over the Heresy 1 and possibly versions 2 & 3, but it is not a Super Heresy.
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Thanks for clarifying that the Crites CS2 isn't a Super Heresy variant. Although I have no doubt that the CS2 is a fine speaker, I think I'll rule it out.

That means my next project will be either a Super Heresy or a Cornscala (likely a Crites CS Style B or Style D).

Do you have an opinion on the relative merits of a Super Heresy and a Cornscala?
 
In a nutshell, the Super Heresy is fantastic and punches well above its weight, especially if you are patient good at picking: total cost for my current super heresy is about $600, all in. My plan is once I have the new cabinets ready, to stick all the mods in there and sell the refreshed, but stock heresies. I may come close to breaking even and end up with, effectively, free super heresies. That would make upgrading the woofers to 2.0 spec (actually 2.5, since I’ll have k701 & k53 squawkers) much less painful on the budget.
 
I built a pair of the CornScalas about 3 years ago.
Still have them, wonderful speaker.
Also built Cornwalls, both have the same size cabinets.
I over built the cabinet weighing 140lbs.

Good luck with your choice and project
 
Thanks for all of the input.

The prices of used Heresy speakers have risen so that the price of a Super Heresy 2.0 build is pretty much equivalent to that of a building a new Cornscala (i.e., Crites CS Style B), even if I were to use @Daveintn's excellent SMAHL tweeters instead of the ones Crites provides.

When asked about the advisability about building a Heresy cabinet from scratch, the Super Heresy developer (@ClaudeJ1) recommended against doing that, saying he was working on a better design for such situations. However, I haven't yet found those plans.

That being the case, I'm inclined to proceed with the Cornscala instead of a Super Heresy 2.0 because I expect a Cornscala would deliver superior performance. The only downside is its large size.

I'll now have to decide what to use as a tweeter in the Cornscala --- the standard Crites-supplied CT120 or @Daveintn's SMAHL. I'll create another thread about that.
 
I’ve seen Heresies for as little as $500-600 in the past few weeks. That said, I think the total outlay to built your own cabinets should be around $230, if you used Crites motor boards, less if you do it yourself and don’t value your time. I spent about $650 to build mine, but I already had the Baltic Birch and veneer, so my outlay was for motorboards, woofers, 701 horns and k53 drivers, networks and Dave A‘s tweeters.
 
Dave MacKay said:
Thanks for all of the input.

The prices of used Heresy speakers have risen so that the price of a Super Heresy 2.0 build is pretty much equivalent to that of a building a new Cornscala (i.e., Crites CS Style B), even if I were to use @Daveintn's excellent SMAHL tweeters instead of the ones Crites provides.

When asked about the advisability about building a Heresy cabinet from scratch, the Super Heresy developer (@ClaudeJ1) recommended against doing that, saying he was working on a better design for such situations. However, I haven't yet found those plans.

That being the case, I'm inclined to proceed with the Cornscala instead of a Super Heresy 2.0 because I expect a Cornscala would deliver superior performance. The only downside is its large size.

I'll now have to decide what to use as a tweeter in the Cornscala --- the standard Crites-supplied CT120 or @Daveintn's SMAHL. I'll create another thread about that.
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First of all I did NOT "develop" a Super Heresy. I MODIFIED it. I named it "super" because I used DaveTennessee's Super Tweeters. Otherwise, all the parts, except refreshed Capacitors were all KLIPSCH. The Box, the mid horn, the mid driver, the crossover and the Woofer (K-42's taken from Klipsch PRO Heresys) If I were to develop one, I would NOT call it a Super HERESY, but it would be called something else, since it would have nothing to do with Klipsch. Also I would NOT restrict myself to that particular Box size (neither did Klipsch with their Subsequent Heresy IV, which they finally ported 7 years after I did). I never compromise my integrity in helping others reach a higher ladder position on the way to sonic Nirvana!

Now if there were such a thing as a "CornScala," then I built the very first one in 1975 in my early 20's. It had a larger bass cabinet, a different woofer, but it used a K-400 Horn and an Atlas Driver similar to Klipsch K-55, and an EV T-35, similar to a K77. Obviously I never called it that.

The cabinet I have already designed is more like a very tall Chorus 1 with a rear port. It uses 2 Eminence woofers. One above the mid horn and one below. It's my version of a D'Appolito MTM Configuration (WTW is more accurate). I don't publish plans for speakers based on simulations alone. I have to build them for myself and measure them FIRST, like I did the very popular Mod I did on the Super Heresy. But since this is a build from scratch, like my Quarter Pie horn, I will not release the plans until they have been proven first. Integrity isn't easy, but I stick to my principles.
 
Gigantic said:
I’ve seen Heresies for as little as $500-600 in the past few weeks. That said, I think the total outlay to built your own cabinets should be around $230, if you used Crites motor boards, less if you do it yourself and don’t value your time. I spent about $650 to build mine, but I already had the Baltic Birch and veneer, so my outlay was for motorboards, woofers, 701 horns and k53 drivers, networks and Dave A‘s tweeters.
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I disagree with your "total outlay" for the rest of us. I just paid $800 for a pair of Heresy's to convert them to Super 2.0's because they were LOCAL. I would have paid just as much when paying for SHIPPING and TAX on top of it on Ebay from out of town or state. Even if you build the box for $230, if you get the Klipsch parts USED on Ebay, you will pay $350 for Klipsch K-700 horns, K-55 drivers, and Klipsch E networks......MINIMUM. So now your costs are up to $600 only if you can get them locally, which is unlikely. Also Delta Pro Woofers are $320 plus tax (free shipping) and backordered at Parts Express (don't forget the Ports, or you will pay shipping on those and won't be included in the Free shipping you get when you get them with the woofers). If you go with the Better/Improved 2.0 version to save weight and gain more output, then the Kappalite 3012 HO's will cost you $500 plus tax. Either way, I I think the current price for Tweeters is close to $280 with shipping, but you need to ask Dave about that I'm just guessing. So getting a pair of working Heresy's on Ebay, will allow you to sell off the K-22's and K-77's for maybe $300.

For anyone to budget less than $1,200 to $1,500 for either Supers with a $300 Ebay resale on Klipsch drivers to ease the pain is unrealistic. Also, if Dave Mackay want to build "CornScalas" (silly name or not), last I looked Baltic Birch Plywood will set him back $400-500 to do it.

This should prove to you that you got a "steal deal" going when you built YOURS, aye?
 
I meant the cost for building the cabinets, for a sheet of Baltic birch and a pair of Crites motor boards. Naturally, the parts would add on top of that; I think with building all new cabinets to house my super heresy 1.5’s, I’ll be somewhere between $600-$800 for the woofers, horns, drivers, networks and parts. I did. get really good deals on barely used, but very good condition woofers and mids; the sMAHLs were the biggest single expense.
 
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Dave MacKay said:
Having recently completed the restoration and upgrading of my 1986 La Scalas, I'm looking for a new project. I've been intrigued by the Super Heresy that @JClaude1 developed and described on the Klipsch forum.

I'd prefer to build a Super Heresy from scratch since it might take quite a while to source a Heresy suitable for modifying.

Is there a repository for info about the Super Heresy? The thread I've seen on the Klipsch forum is 36 screens long and is at risk of disappearing.

Alternatively, is the Crites CS2 (https://critesspeakers.com/crites-speaker-style-2.html) a Super Heresy? It looks to be pretty appealing.

All comments and suggestions welcomed.
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If you build a Super H from scratch, you may want to make the box a wee bit taller to make up for the port. On your apples and oranges question. The bigger box/bigger woofer always wins if you have the room for it. But considering you can play a Super Heresy 2.0 at a stupid loud 120 db output with a 100 Watt amp with such a small box, it's still going to amaze your friends.
 
If I'd read about the Super H prior to building my Crites Type B Cornwallish clones I may have gone that route. I was going to purchase new Heresy IV until I heard the Cornwall IV which were out of my price range. I couldn't settle for much less after that. I have the room for the larger speakers so I went for it. I bought the motorboards from Crites with all of their kit components. The Baltic Birch 5x5 sheets were 95.00 ea last year and only 110 each 2 months ago when I checked (you need 2 sheets) and I bought the good stuff from a local small lumberyard. I don't use a subwoofer and personally wanted to build the larger speaker. My ST-70 drives them louder than I'll ever need. I can understand needing a smaller sized cabinet in alot of situations. That's where a Super Heresy would excell and provide a satisfying amount of bass that the original design doesn't.
 
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After adding a 2nd sub to my Super Heresies, I’m beginning to question if I need to build a pair of Cornscalas, next. Of course I don’t, but the process of building the Super Heresy was so fun, that I want to take it to the next level, if not further.
 
Gigantic said:
After adding a 2nd sub to my Super Heresies, I’m beginning to question if I need to build a pair of Cornscalas, next. Of course I don’t, but the process of building the Super Heresy was so fun, that I want to take it to the next level, if not further.
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Even if you built a Super Chorus, as I've, essentially, posted, you will still need those subs, but at a lower crossover point, about 20 Hz. lower.
 
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