Question regarding identifying comparable speakers

[mschool]

I compared tower speakers today in a retail store which had Dali, Yamaha, and Monitor Audio. All of the tower speakers were close, but the Yamaha NS-F500 was the pair that I liked the most. I told the store that my amp was 44 Watt so the store used a 40 Watt amp, which was closest to mine. Mine is an Onkyo A-9010 and the store used a Marantz. I double-checked the sticker and it was a 40 Watt Amp. The specs on the Yamaha do not appear to be unique (link to specs below). They are $1200 USD for the pair and are from Yamaha’s 2017.08 catalogue, so I might be able to find them on auction. That said, there are tons of used speakers on the market in Japan. And my question is this; what line items from Yamaha speaker specs are key to finding a similar performing speaker as the one I heard today? Note: My listening room is a rectangle; 2.5 meters x 8 meters and currently empty.
https://sg.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-f500/specs.html

 

[Wes_in_VA]

Specs only tell a small part of the story. Without a serious background in speaker design and a ton more info than a company generally provides in their specifications, there’s no way to tell from info about a speaker how the sound of that speaker will compare to another.
Granted, there are some sweeping generalizations about some aspects, such as the way that a horn loaded design will present, or how the bass in an acoustic suspension design might sound compared to a bad reflex speaker, but all in all you just really have to listen.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Wes is right, but there is one spec that is a reliable indicator of how easy a speaker is to drive...in other words, how resistant a load it is for your amp to push to any given volume level. It’s called the “sensitivity” rating and with your low wattage amp, I’d be paying attention to that particular value and would probably want to keep it in the 90’s. I wouldn’t get fixated on the max wattage rating of the speaker if I were you. The sensitivity rating is much more relevant with regard to determining if amplifier or speakers will be easily stressed (distortion/clipping).

Michael

 

[mschool]

It’s called the “sensitivity” rating and with your low wattage amp, I’d be paying attention to that particular value and would probably want to keep it in the 90’s.

Michael

Thank you. The Yamahas I heard today have a sensitivity of 88db.
There are some used speakers, a pair of JMLab Chorus 715 (2001) with Sensitivity of 91.5db and a pair of ELAC FS57.2 (2005-2013) with a sensitivity of 89db, and a pair of Monitor Audio BX5 (2011) with a sensitivity
of 90db. I have yet to identify a pair with a sensitivity in the mid-90s. Is 88db too low?

 

[62vauxhall]

Deciding on a speaker by specs is like visualizing a painting from a written description.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Thank you. The Yamahas I heard today have a sensitivity of 88db.
There are some used speakers, a pair of JMLab Chorus 715 (2001) with Sensitivity of 91.5db and a pair of ELAC FS57.2 (2005-2013) with a sensitivity of 89db, and a pair of Monitor Audio BX5 (2011) with a sensitivity
of 90db. I have yet to identify a pair with a sensitivity in the mid-90s. Is 88db too low?

It depends on how loud you intend to listen to your music. If you like to pour on the coals...even if infrequently...or will be using the speakers in a large room and won’t be listening to them within close proximity (referred to as “near field”) or keep the loudness switch engaged, my suggestion is that you stick with something in the 90’s unless you plan on acquiring an amp with more power in the future. A little bit of distortion negates all your careful planning in the other links of the signal chain. You’ve heard the term “headroom” and understand its significance/merit? A high sensitivity speaker more or less creates headroom for low powered amps.
If you intend to only listen at low volume or in a near field sort of configuration, the sensitivity rating becomes less of an issue and something in the high 80’s would probably be ok.

 

[mschool]

Deciding on a speaker by specs is like visualizing a painting from a written description.

My situation is as follows, retailers have this years’ models on display. I can walk in, listen to it in a store environment, decide to buy, take it home, and return it. But I pay a premium for that protection. The world is awash in secondary market gear. In the $300-$500 speaker market, is there really a big difference in construction? It’s the used market where there is better leverage for quality. But one can only trial the speakers if a friend has the same model. What are the odds of that?

 

[mschool]

You’ve heard the term “headroom” and understand its significance/merit? A high sensitivity speaker more or less creates headroom for low powered amps.
If you intend to only listen at low volume or in a near field sort of configuration, the sensitivity rating becomes less of an issue and something in the high 80’s would probably be ok.

Thank you for putting this in layman’s terms for me. Yes, this makes perfect sense. I will research speakers with higher sensitivity and compare. Note: I live in Japan and rooms are small here. Listening will be personal and not for large parties.

 

[62vauxhall]

My situation is as follows, retailers have this years’ models on display. I can walk in, listen to it in a store environment, decide to buy, take it home, and return it. But I pay a premium for that protection. The world is awash in secondary market gear. In the $300-$500 speaker market, is there really a big difference in construction? It’s the used market where there is better leverage for quality. But one can only trial the speakers if a friend has the same model. What are the odds of that?

Virtually zero.

I’ve been out of the HiFi business nearly 10 years but even then speaker design, if you can call it that, and construction was becoming poor. And by that I mean popularly priced speakers not those where price is not important.

Auditioning speakers has become a luxury seemingly few can indulge in. That is why I’m stuck on vintage. I visited stereo shops religiously in days gone by and remember what I liked and what I did not like.

With few exceptions, what passes for equipment retailers these days are high volume big box stores. Sales people have no knowledge of the audio they’re supposed to be selling. But to the credit of those few I’ve spoken with, they didn’t pretend to. I don’t envy anyone being limited to such places for new equipment, but they may be the only choice. Things might be different where you are.

So many good even great speakers have come and gone. Some brand names remain but products are a pale shadow of what they once were.

Some say speakers are better now than they ever were and that may be true in some instances. My problem is that I cannot afford “high end” these days but could afford, maybe, high end or high-ish end from 30/40 years ago. A good speaker from back then, in my opinion, is still a good speaker today.

A knowledgeable audio store owner and former musician that I’m acquainted with feels that in a lot of ways, Quad ESL57’s were the best speakers ever made. And they came out in 1957.

I don’t know what to suggest.to a person such as yourself. The scope of shopping for speakers the traditional way is not possible and cannot be as exhilarating an experience as it once was. .

I wish you luck in your quest.

 

[xero-D-hero]

If I were living in Japan I would'nt be looking for some "modern retai / mass producedl" speakers,I'd be looking for the stuff you cant find anywhere else.
Check out Hi-Fi Do.com for some ideas.

One brand that comes to mind is Diatone,those are pretty rare here in the states,but fairly common over there.
Some specific JBL stuff too,nearly impossiiible to find here,but relatively common over there.

JM2¢

Bret P.

 

[darkblue94]

There are some real badass vintage stereo salons in or near Tokyo and elsewhere in Japan. I would look for them and go there.
They can demo the gear for you.

 

[toxcrusadr]

>>Granted, there are some sweeping generalizations about some aspects, such as the way that a horn loaded design will present, or how the bass in an acoustic suspension design might sound compared to a bad reflex speaker,

So, for those Yamahas, what was the general design? Tower, with how many drivers, how big are the woofers, are they ported or sealed, mid and tweeter types (dome, horn etc.)? Not that you have to match this exactly, but it does give a general idea.

What did you like about them specifically, over the other ones you heard? Overall balance, sweet midrange, not shouty, nice air on top, ??

 

[mschool]

>>Granted, there are some sweeping generalizations about some aspects, such as the way that a horn loaded design will present, or how the bass in an acoustic suspension design might sound compared to a bad reflex speaker,

So, for those Yamahas, what was the general design? Tower, with how many drivers, how big are the woofers, are they ported or sealed, mid and tweeter types (dome, horn etc.)? Not that you have to match this exactly, but it does give a general idea.

What did you like about them specifically, over the other ones you heard? Overall balance, sweet midrange, not shouty, nice air on top, ??

To be quite honest with you, I did the same test in the same store around a year ago, and the same Yamaha tower was the best in the bunch; with 50% of that view based on price, and the other 50% based on sound. I stood as far away as I would in my own room and lowered my head in line to the top tweeter. The $600 (each new) Yamaha was at parity, or better than more expensive speakers from ELAC, Monitor, and Dali. B&W and Tannoy were triple the price, so I did not compare them. Maybe I should do that next week; identify a pair that are better than the Yamaha and then re-evaluate.

What I do know is that a 40 Watt Amp was driving all of them, so perhaps, I should understand the power/sensitivity issue better.
Granted, I am price motivated.

I have also seen plenty of photos of interiors of vintage speakers and am leary of discovering deterioration and rot issues on a pair of speakers I take home. The only pair that I see in various stages of restoration for sale are the Yamaha MS-1000 Monitor which have a big following, but I am told my amp would struggle to drive them. Hence the joy of reconfirming the Yamaha towers are in the sweet zone on price and sound.

I have identified the Yamaha towers at $500 (pair with light surface scratches) used, as well as Monitor, ELAC, and Chorus. In local secondary market stores with 90-day warranty, and will fit in my car.