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Questions about a MC 452

CH54Bob

New Member
Hi There;

I am new to the forum and I had a few questions about a MC 452. I am looking at upgrading my 2 channel amp to a MC 452. The front two channels are 804s speakers that were previously being driven by a sony 5400 es integrated reciever (120 watts per channel). Do you think this is overkill for the 804s (it will definately give me headroom to grow with if I upgrade the speakers at a later date). What do you think a reasonable price to pay for the mc 452 is? new or previously loved?

Thanks for your help, Best regards, Rob
 
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The 452 is a great choice, since it has 100% of Mc's newest technology, meaning Quad-Balanced and thermaltrack transistors, etc., so it will last a very long time and work well with a very wide variety of speakers.

That said, it's a lot of amp for those speakers. You'll get a better price used, but not by a whole lot, because there aren't very many 452s in the used market.

If it were me, I'd try a used 352, which will give you 97% of the 452's performance, at a much, much cheaper cost.

If you find you need that last 3% later (or the extra 100 wpc), you can sell the 352 with little or no loss. If you decide to keep it long-term, you can install an LED kit from Audio Classics, and narrow the differences between the two amps even further.
 
+1. Or, if you can stand the 'non-classical' looks (ugh - beauty is in the eye of the beholder) of the MC402 amp, there have been many traded in on the MC452 and are plentiful on the used market (Audigon and dealers). While the MC352, MC402 and MC452 are all fully balanced, the MC452 is the only one with the ThermalTrac output transistor technology. Three amps, three price levels. With all, you pay what you negotiate (just ask 'Negotiatalbeterms' ;)).
 
Thanks NegotiableTerms!!! I will look into a 352. I had a line on a 452 for around $5500 that I thought was pretty good.At that I thought maybe in the future I could get most of my money back as well in a re-sale. I know they are hard to come by though as there are not many out there...I agree it is alot of amp for the speaker and maybe the 352 would be a better match.

Best regards,
Rob
 
+1. Or, if you can stand the 'non-classical' looks (ugh - beauty is in the eye of the beholder) of the MC402 amp, there have been many traded in on the MC452 and are plentiful on the used market (Audigon and dealers). While the MC352, MC402 and MC452 are all fully balanced, the MC452 is the only one with the ThermalTrac output transistor technology. Three amps, three price levels. With all, you pay what you negotiate (just ask 'Negotiatalbeterms' ;)).

Thanks MX 117.MC7150, the 402 is another avenue to consider, and they are much more common on the used market. I would assume that the 452 being rare will hold its value a little better....If I could get a low time one for around $5500 do you think that is a good investment?

Thanks, Rob
 
I would definitely try and get the 452. It may be the last you will buy. I use to own the 402, and the 452 is a big step up. Dan is a well respected person who posts on another forum. He feels they are a step up from the 501 mono blocks.








MC452 Review



After ten days the MC452 now has 120 hours on it. For the past two days I have heard no change in the 452's presentation, so I believe it is now rendering its permanent sonic signature. Right out of the box during it's first two hours of play my immediate impression was that the MC452 reminded me of the sound I was getting from my MC501's, only weeks ago connected to the same SF Guarneri Memento's. I was instantly impressed.

The MC452 is installed in the two channel system in my studio connected to a C1000C/T preamplifier running Gold Lion 12AX7 tubes, an MCD500, a Bryston 10B Sub active crossover, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, Sonus faber Guarneri Memento speakers, and a pair of McIntosh XLS112 powered subwoofers. The studio is treated with ATS Acoustics 2x2 and 2x4 panels, plus floor to ceiling bass traps in the two front corners. All interconnects are Wireworld balanced Silver Eclipse, all power cords are Wireworld Silver Electra, and the speaker cables are Kimber 8TC terminated with WBT solid silver angled locking banana connectors.

As I said, my immediate impression of the MC452 sound was that it resembled the MC501, but this impression was short lived. On day one I let the 452 play continuously through the night with the MCD500 on repeat. By 10:00 AM day two my 501 impression was history, replaced with the thought that the MC452 was very bright sounding, almost to the point of being edgy and aggravating. It definitely was not the McIntosh sound I was use to hearing, nor the sound I would tolerate owning were it to continue in that vain. I closed the studio door and left the MCD500 playing. At one point during day two I turned the sound system off, and let the gear get cold, then two hours later turned the system on again. Still, the sound of the 452 was too bright to be able to sit and enjoy what was coming from the speakers. Days three and four were carbon copies of day two. By day five I began to hear what I considered music, although the brightness in the upper midrange was beginning to fade, it was still persisting. Day seven surprised me. I found myself sitting and listening for several hours in the late afternoon, beginning to be impressed with what was presenting itself. I was hearing a much smoother range of frequencues with the balance between lows, mids, and highs in closer relationship. The edgy, bright midrange had deminished enough that I began easing the volume up, and found that I was enjoying what I was hearing. As days eight, nine, and ten (today) came, the MC452's sound has smoothed a tiny bit more, but has remained in the same sonic window it settled into by the end of day seven.

So how does it sound? Not like the MC501's at all. I believe McIntosh has quietly revoiced this amp, and I would suspect the MC601 as well. I can't say whether it is the new ThermalTrak output transistors that have altered the sonic signature, or if the audio circuits have been intentionally redesigned to voice the amp differently. What I am experiencing is a sound that seems dynamically quicker, more analytical, particularly in the upper midrange frequencies. There is a sharper clarity to strings, grouped voices, drum snaps, and cymbals. Piano comes across slightly crisper in tone in the upper octaves, yet not in an objectionable manner. The 452 presents itself as more forward than the 501's, which by comparison now sound slightly darker to me in their presentation.

I used several different artists CD's, first played on the studio system with the MC452, then immediately replayed on the main system with the MC501's. Once I began to seriously compare the MC452 with the MC501's, I selected Dan Siegel - Hemisphere as my first CD to audition the amps. The drums. cymbals, and voices through the MC452 were slightly more dynamic, quicker if you will, and were presented more forward in the overall mix. The faintest of sounds, like a gentle tap on a triangle, rang perfectly, and diminished to silence with a greater clarity on the 452 than on the 501's. The sound of maracas on the CD's first track, drifting across the sound stage from right to left, were more distinct in their texture and presence through the MC452. By comparison, the maracas sound seemed slightly muted in the sound stage presented through the MC501's.

As I moved to Fourplay - Between The Sheets, the MC452's slightly forward presentation continued. Solo vocals, and harmonies had a certain crisp clarity not heard through the 501's. Fourplay likes to use various unusual sounds that drift across the sound stage in support of the instruments being played. These various sounds all seemed enhanced and at a closer position to me than when auditioning the same CD tracks on the main system with the MC501's.

I played Liz Story - 17 Seconds To Anywhere to get a feeling for solo piano through the 452. It presented Liz Story's talented piano playing in a more up close and personal fashion, again with a new found dynamic quickness as she strikes full chords, as well as individual keys. The MC501's do a fine job with piano, but the new dynamic quickness through the MC452 was not as present with the 501's. The MC452's sustained notes lingered effortlessly and faded to an absolute jet black silence as the notes diminished. It seems to me that between the new MC452's dynamic quickness, its effortless power delivery, and the ultra silent background, I am able to hear deeper into the music, picking up new sonic cues in music that I had previously missed.

Don't misunderstand my comparison of the MC452 to the MC501 amplifiers. The 501's are amazing amplifiers, detailed, dynamic power houses. I am not hammering on the 501's in any way, just simply offering my interpretation of what I experienced comparing the same music on two different amplifiers. The MC501's still rock the house, but when compared to the 452, the 501's do it with a slightly darker presentation.

There is definitely a new voice with the McIntosh MC452, one that places the entire musical presentation more forward, with dynamics that seem to be faster in their attack. The 452 is a bit more in your face, so to speak. The forward nature of the sonic signature, coupled with a sense of faster dynamic attacks leaves me believing the new MC452, and quite possibly the new MC601's, have been intentionally voiced by the McIntosh design team as a way of refreshing the amplifier lineup against the onslaught of so many other players on the field. Time will tell if my opinion has merit.

A few other things. The MC452 is a heavy amplifier. Get help when it's time to unbox or move this beast. The speaker terminals are new, and unique in their manner of clamping to spade terminals. McIntosh even supplies a small molded wrench to tighten the terminals. Since I use locking banana plugs, I discovered the holes in the terminals for banana plugs are very tight. With the banana plugs in the unlocked position, I had to push hard to get the WBT solid silver banana plugs into the MC452's terminal holes. Locking the banana plugs was only a half turn on the connector's knurled knob instead of the usual turn and a half. There may be some banana plugs that will not fit into the holes on these new termenals. Also, be aware that the MC452 has no provisions to allow bridging the amplifier for use as a mono block. It is strictly a two channel amplifier. The new balanced and unbalance line outputs on the rear that allow daisy chaining to another amplifier are a nice feature for those who may need this option.

Now the big question. Can a MC452 replace a pair of MC501's in a sound system and leave an owner happy? I believe it can. The MC452 has plenty of power, far more than the 450 watts advertised, and when coupled with the apparent faster dynamics and new forward presentation, is a strong candidate for a two channel replacement to a mono block setup. The power supply in the MC452 is not lacking in any way. Channel separation is as good as the mono 501's, and the sound stage is wide, deep, and 3 dimensional. There is no compromise in the current necessary to drive both channels to full output. I am thinking two MC452's might make the perfect bi-amp setup.

Ultimately, I am very impressed with the MC452. It has gobs of power, and with the quickness of its dynamics the MC452 sounds like it has more power than the MC501's. This power is delivered effortlessly without a hint of dynamic compression. When a drum slams, a horn blasts, or a guitar rips into a screaming lead, it is all there and then some. It doesn't disappoint in the softer subtle sounds, either. The new sonic signature has surprised me, and was not expected. It will take awhile for me to absorb and adjust my old expectations to the changes. Now that the MC452 has settled into its permanent voice, I am thoroughly enjoying listening to it. The new MC452 voice is like living in the same building, but moving up one floor with a slightly better view. The MC452 is a winner.
__________________
Dan
 
Since his review, he has purchased 2 pairs of MC601's, and a pair of MC 2301 tube amps. He has also done extensive reviews of both the McIntosh MC601 mono block and the McIntosh MC2301 tube amps.
 
The MC452 is only 'rare' on the used market as it is only a year since its introduction at the CES in 2011. $5500 for one strikes me as a 'fair' price if the MRSP is $7500, which I seem to recall. I would not use the words "investment" and "stereo gear" in the same discussion. For me, an investment is supposed to have a positive monetary return. Of course, I suppose one can invest in their pleasure. And you will likely derive a great deal of listening and pride-of-ownership pleasure from an MC452. I cannot imagine going wrong with an MC452. New or used.
 
I went from a MC252 to a MC452 and the difference is phenominal. And I use this with monitors, so you might think overkill, but I think good, clean power with tons to spare is netter than overdriving with an underpowered amp.
 
Thanks Turbo Ron, that is an excellent review you posted from Dan. Very convincing case to go with the 452. Miner I would be willing to agree with you on a reserve of power being a better thing than a lack of good clean power and underdriving good speakers....I just have to explain this to my wife....lol. You are right though, it is a question of long term enjoyment more than the sting of the initial purchase....and it would seem as though the 452 would be a good purchase.

Thanks so much for all of your help. I will let you know how it turns out in the coming weeks...

Best Regards;
Rob
 
The only question is whether 450 wpc is really a meaningful increase in reserve power over 350 wpc, when divided into the cost difference. No one can answer that but the guy writing the check.
 
CH54Bob - looking at your avatar, are you a 'Sky Crane' pilot? Have used a couple of times to set equipment on some buildings.

Whichever amp you choose, you can't go wrong.
 
Hi MX117.MC7150;

Thanks for the advice. Needed some expert opinions as I have nowhere near the knowledge of you guys when it comes to this kind of stuff. You would be correct about my line of work. I am currently in the Amazon Jungle of Peru flying one for an oil company, moving drill rigs and heavy equipment. When it rains, and it rains alot, I am usually thinking of ways to improve my audio equipment...lol...

Best Regards,
Rob
 
It seems the thermaltrak transistor is as big of advance in sound as normal transistors are from vacuum tubes.

Dan's review is very informative but has he ever given McIntosh equipment a bad review?

I will stick with the "old Mac" sound because it is tube sound without tubes.
 
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