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Quick Question for the Shure Experts: Ne95ED Stylus on an M75E Cartridge

MCM_Fan

MCM_Fan

AK Subscriber
I think it will work, but just want to be sure.

Any reason a Shure NDC form factor stylus won't work on a Shure M75E form factor cartridge? Specifically an Ne95ED stylus on a Shure Realisitc R700E cartridge.

I know the NDC form factor styli were intended for the newer V-shaped Shure cartridge bodies, but I don't see any reason mechanically why they won't also for the flat bottomed M75 series bodies.

Assuming is fit mechanically, is there any electrical reason this would't be a good match?
 
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It will fit. Ndc stylus fit m70s, same body. One warning, a few months ago as I was putting an ndc on an m75 the body popped right out, they fit tight. I had the body pop out on an m44g that was only 2 years old so it's not old glue. I glued them back together with silicon GLUE. There are different levels of adhesion with silicon. I had a pair of 10" woofers fall out of a sub after a night of partying. They were glued in with generic silicon caulk. Usually its practically impossible to remove a woofer glued with silicone.
 
MCM_Fan said:
...is there any electrical reason this wouldn't be a good match?
Click to expand...
Depends on how picky you are. It's not so much an electrical difference as a magnetic one. The older M75 body has a multi-piece magnetic circuit with more losses, especially at high frequencies. The ME95ED body (based on the M95ED but with a different mounting cap) has a more-efficient, one-piece thinned-out magnetic circuit. See the Nov 1975 test in Radio-Electronics, page 61.
The coils are pretty much the same, though the DC resistance is higher in the 95, which helps suppress the high frequency peak but doesn't materially affect the sound you'll hear.
What's the result? The M75 body will reduce the upper midrange and treble, compared with the same stylus in the ME95, which may or may not be pleasant. It will sound either less bright or less neutral, depending. The difference may be marked or slight, depending on your speakers and sound-character preferences. I think most folks would vote "slight".
 
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I have a Me75ed and a R27ed, so they're not identical? Also a M91ed, I thought they were all the same body. I also have an M44g, M44e and an M55e. I thought the bodies were all the same, the m44s were at a slightly different angle.
 
^No, those are two different families. M44 (and related) bodies are nearly rectangular in side view and the bottom is perfectly flat. M75 etc. are a little smaller, the body is "tail up," and the lowest corner where the stylus slips in is cut off a little. But the biggest difference is in the styli. M44 styli are longer and bend down to where they meet the record.

I copied this from richardz on the LH forum years ago for my own sanity. The three major ranges, grouped by the first three generations of the V15, which also shared the same "can":
V15 original - M44, M31/32, M55, M73PE, AMC50E
V15II - M71, M73PED, M74, M75, M91, M92, M93, M70, AMC70ED, RS1000
V15III - M95, SC35, M97
[...]
Within these groups all that changed was the plastic body, finger grip and styus. If you strip off the fingergrip any stylus within a group will fit and work properly in any other cartridge in that group.
Click to expand...

ETA: The list isn't even complete, of course. In addition to the Realistic variants, there was also the Shure SPS line which was another M75/91 spin-off. There may be more.
 
T68 said:
So if I understand right a 91stylus will fit a 75 body?
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It depends. If you have an early M75 with the metal mounting clip, then the answer is yes. The later plastic bodies are shaped to exclude styli from higher up the line.
 
oldman54 said:
It will fit. Ndc stylus fit m70s, same body. One warning, a few months ago as I was putting an ndc on an m75 the body popped right out, they fit tight.
Click to expand...

Ok, I tried a NOS Ne95ED stylus in my R700E (M75E) body. It fits easily, not at all tight. In fact, that's one of the problems I've been having in locating a replacement stylus for this cartridge. It came with the original RS 700E stylus (which I believe is just a re-badged N75ED). Unfortunately, the cantilever it twisted and unusable. The stock stylus is a nice snug fit - not too tight, not too loose. I've tried other aftermarket styli (JICO made EVG, Pfanstiehl, Normarh), even a NOS Shure N72EJ, but they all seem too loose. Of the replacements, I've tried, the Ne95ED is the best fit, but still a little looser than the original.
 
wualta said:
Depends on how picky you are. It's not so much an electrical difference as a magnetic one. The older M75 body has a multi-piece magnetic circuit with more losses, especially at high frequencies. The ME95ED body (based on the M95ED but with a different mounting cap) has a one-piece thinned-out magnetic circuit. See the Nov 1975 test in Radio-Electronics, page 61.
The coils are pretty much the same, though the DC resistance is higher in the 95, which helps suppress the high frequency peak but doesn't materially affect the sound you'll hear.
What's the result? The M75 body will reduce the upper midrange and treble, compared with the same stylus in the ME95, which may or may not be pleasant. It will sound either less bright or less neutral, depending. The difference may be marked or slight, depending on your speakers and sound-character preferences. I think most folks would vote "slight".
Click to expand...

Thanks for the details. I originally bought a NOS Ne95ED stylus for a Realistic R47XT, that came (minus stylus) with a LAB 440 turntable I bought. I only listened to a couple records with it. I recall I liked the sound, but quickly replaced it with a Signet TK10ML as the LAB 440 was the only table I owned (at the time) with an arm light enough to work with the Signet - and I only had one headshell for that table.

Now, I have a Technics (MCS) table with a tonearm with an effective mass of 12g (with original headshell). I still have the R47XT, plus the R700E, a couple original 7g Technics headshells, and the NOS Ne95ED stylus. So, next up is to mount and align both carts in headshells and listen to some music and see if I notice any difference. I'm pretty sure I can't hear anything above 15kHz and I generally like the signature "warm" sound of the vintage Shure carts over the "bright" sound of other brands.. If the differences are indeed "slight" it not might be enough to make a difference. I won't be able to get to it immediately, but when I do, I will report my (subjective) findings.
 
MCM_Fan said:
Ok, I tried a NOS Ne95ED stylus in my R700E (M75E) body. It fits easily, not at all tight. In fact, that's one of the problems I've been having in locating a replacement stylus for this cartridge. It came with the original RS 700E stylus (which I believe is just a re-badged N75ED). Unfortunately, the cantilever it twisted and unusable. The stock stylus is a nice snug fit - not too tight, not too loose. I've tried other aftermarket styli (JICO made EVG, Pfanstiehl, Normarh), even a NOS Shure N72EJ, but they all seem too loose. Of the replacements, I've tried, the Ne95ED is the best fit, but still a little looser than the original.[/QUOTE try a little piece of blue tack, I use it as I swap stylus around on my carts. A little dab'll do ya. Know what I mean?
Click to expand...
 
MCM_Fan said:
No, not really. I know what blue tack is, but where to you apply it?
Click to expand...
I apply a similar material, thin amount where the plastic grip meets the metal can around the tube insert hole. I've also used (carefully) a dental pick to snug the hole up by bending the ears of that hole back into the hole a touch.
 
marcmorin said:
I apply a similar material, thin amount where the plastic grip meets the metal can around the tube insert hole. I've also used (carefully) a dental pick to snug the hole up by bending the ears of that hole back into the hole a touch.
Click to expand...

I carefully "snugged up" the hole and now all my styli fit with a proper amount of snugness.

I've mounted up the R700E with the NOS Ne95ED stylus on an original 7g Technics headshell, aligned the cart, balanced the tonearm and set the VTF to 1.25g. Just one problem, my turntable is an MCS 6700 (Technics SL-1950). It's a changer and doesn't have adjustable VTA. In the past, I just stacked a second Technics mat on top of the stock mat to get the proper VTA. But, I sold that mat with its original table last week. I just ordered a replacement mat of the proper thickness, but it won't be here until next week. So, no testing until then.

Here's the styli I have for this cart:

NOS Shure Ne95ED 0.2 x 0.7 mil elliptical recommended VTF = 0.75 - 1.5g
NOS Shure N72EJ 0.4 x 0.7 mil elliptical, recommended VTF = 1.5 - 3g
New JICO made EVG 0.3 x 0.7 mil elliptical, recommended VTF = 0.75 - 1.5g
NOS Shure N75EC 0.4 x 0.7 mil elliptical, recommended VTF = 1.5 - 3g

The last one, I'd forgotten I had. I actually have two of them. They are genuine made in the US Shure, in sealed Pfansteihl packages. The Voice of Music lists the recommended VTF as 2 - 4g, but the back of the package says 1.5 - 3g. In any case, since I also have the 0.4 x 0.7 mil N72EJ, I'll probably skip testing the N75EC at this time and just test the first 3 on the list.
 
Ok, here's the R700E with the Ne95ED 0.2 x 0.7 mill elliptical installed (flip down stylus guard removed):

Shure-R700-E-Ne95-ED.jpg


My new 3mm turntable mat arrived this morning. So, stacking that one with the original gets the VTA back where it needs to be. It really brings back the bass that was missing when running with just the stock mat. This table (MCS 6700) is based on the Technics 1950, which is a changer without adjustable VTA. The VTA is fixed and optimized for the third record in a stack of six. Since I run it as a single play machine, I needed to add the thickness of ~ two albums to get the VTA to the desired height.

Previously, I was running a Shure M73E, also with a NOS 0.2 x 0.7 elliptical stylus on this table - with two mats (the top mat was from a different MCS single play table I recently sold). That cart has a reputation for having a lot of bass (think M55E/M44E). I listened to a couple records with the R700E with a single mat and it was definitely lacking bass. I was worried the R700E may just be a thinner sounding, bass shy, cartridge (especially compared to the M73E). Well, adding the second mat and getting the VTA back here it needs to be REALLY brought back the bass.

In fact this combination sounds so good on this table, I'm just going to spend a few days enjoying it. Eventually, I'll try the JICO made 0.3 x 0.7 mil elliptical and the NOS N72EJ (0.4 x 0.7 mil elliptical) on this cart. Once I pick my preferred stylus for this cart, I'll do some listening tests comparing it to the M73E on this same table to see which I prefer. This is my secondary table, but right now, it's sounding really good.
 
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