• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

RCM Vacuum Question...

JonL

JonL

Lunatic Member
I have a question for those of you who use and are satisfied with a vacuum record cleaning machine. How strong is the vacuum, and how much bypass air goes through whatever kind of strips seal against the record? Is the vacuum so strong that the record is pulled tight against the seals with very little air flowing through?

I have a Record Doctor / Nitty Gritty RCM that I've never found truly satisfactory in its cleaning performance. I don't feel that it cleans my records well enough to justify the claims many make for their vacuum RCMs. Even after as many as ten revolutions over the vacuum slot, my records still have a bit of visible moisture on them and need to dry in a dish rack for a few minutes. I wonder if my dissatisfaction is due to the RCM not effectively vacuuming away all the fluid and contamination, leaving some dirt behind to dry up in the grooves.

The vacuum on the unit is so strong that it sucks the record down tight against the "velvet" sealing strips, allowing very little air to come through. It seems to me that the vacuum has to create a high velocity air stream through the grooves in order to effectively suck away the fluid and debris. With the record pulled so tightly against the lips, there is very little air flow, thus my damp records and perhaps my less than optimum cleaning.

I haven't seen any difference with brand new, carefully applied OEM lips. I'm thinking of experimenting with homemade lips with taller, somewhat stiffer fibers, or a material with less fiber density (perhaps from a paint pad). I'm also thinking of putting a hole in machine to spoil some of the vacuum. (Or maybe I can run it on a variac first to test the theory... actually, slowing down the vacuum motor with a variac or bucking transformer might quiet the damn thing down a bit too...)

Anybody have any thoughts or experience to share on this?

Thanks!
 
Register to hide this ad
I made an RCM using a $20 Sears ShopVac. I didn't put the vacuum cleaner in a box or anything. I just put an old turntable on my workbench, with the vacuum cleaner on the floor next to it. That's my "cleaning station." I modified the vacuum cleaner crevice tool, filling in the end and making a slot for sucking up the fluid over the record. I took a velvet-type pad that goes on the MoFi record cleaning brush -- the pad has an adhesive backing -- and cut thin strips to put on either side of the slot.

I cut the slot about an inch longer than what contacts the record surface to allow air flow. I think this is critical to keep a vacuum action going without getting totally blocked by being smashed against the record. The brush still gets sucked against the record, but not overly so. I turn the record by hand fairly slowly, and 95% of the liquid gets sucked up in one revolution. Then I get the few damp spots individually with the brush. Since it's just a regular vacuum cleaner hose that I hold in my hand, I can do that. So two revolutions max gets it very dry. Ten sounds like something's not right.

I think your idea of making a hole to keep the airflow going is the right direction. I don't think stiffer fibers will get you there -- plus I'd be worried about scratching the vinyl. Hope this helps.
 
Also, I'm very happy with the results of my RCM. I feel like I get nearly all of the crud out of the grooves, even on very dirty thrift store records. I wouldn't feel good about stopping with visible moisture on them though. I like to get every last bit. Also, if you're going 10 revolutions, you're building up a lot of static. Even 1 or 2 revolutions is enough for static to build up on mine, to the point that I have to use an anti-static gun afterwards. Otherwise the record attracts dust immediately, even before I can play it. I also keep a grounded anti-static brush next to my turntable, and wipe away any dust that is still attracted. (I recently posted a thread about the brush if you're interested.) I also keep a strong LED light by my tt for checking out the record before play. It shows up dust like nothing else. Nowadays, there's not even a single bit of dust on my stylus at the end of a record. So it must be working.
 
I have no trouble with static or with water remaining on the disk. I can play the record after three or four revolutions, and pick up exactly zero crud with the stylus.

I haven't had to clean the stylus in along time.

As far as I can tell, what's left on the record is damage rather than dirt.

I use distilled water with about ten percent alcohol and about two drops of Dawn per cup of water. I make a batch of cleaner and throw away any let over from a cleaning session.

I use LOTS of cleaning solution, applied with a microfiber cloth. I really wet the record for a dozen revolutions or so at 45 or 78. Then I slow down to 16 and vacuum. then more solution and simultaneous vacuuming.

Old garage sale records come out looking like DG's finest.
 
I have a DIY rig, built with a small ShopVac and VPI wand rig.
No issues with it sucking the record up, as the vacuum draws the wand down onto the record/platter. Some records, the really thin one, don't always rotate freely, so I made a record weight for them, and it fixed that problem. The problem records were so thin that they droop when held on horizontal, by the edge. They're infrequent enough to not be an issue, but I thought I'd mention it. I now use the record weight out of habit, on everything (and nowhere at hand to easily set it down).
Static? Never. I use a 6rpm motor; Two revolutions dries the record out, without undue added friction.
 
Hi Jon,
I've messed about with a DIY Vacuum cleaning method (detailed in my website - See the PDF file) and experimented with and without velvet cleaning lips.

Even with fairly coursely woven (ie not dense) velvet lips a standard domestic vac was way too poweful - the suction was so strong that I could'nt rotate the record. I had to open up a bypass vent to back off the suction.
Once optimsed 2 turns of the disc had it bone dry.

But - I ditched the lips all together.
Reason for this was that I saw that particularly grubby 2nd hand buys were contaminating the lips, debris being entrapped and then rubbing on the surface of it and subsequent discs.
So I actually prefer to hover the slot just above the surface of the record and give it the full force of the vacuum cleaner, with nothing in contact with the playing surface at all during the vac cycle.
In this situation I generally need to deliver 3-4 rotations to dry the disc, never any more than 5.

So something does'nt sound right to me Jon in your case - 10 spins and still damp?

One thing I have witnessed is the damp lips re-wetting the surface of the disc (another reason why I dropped them) - This might be a potential reason for your issue?

Hope this helps a little - Good luck getting to the bottom of your problem.

Cheers
Dave
 
JonL I had a Record Doctor/Nitty Gritty prior to purchasing a VPI 16.5. Reason for going with the 16.5 was I was tired of manual turning the Record Doctor but the results were equally good with both RCMs. I would try new replacement strips first and try to cut back on the amount of fluid you are useing to clean/rinse the record. It took me a while on both machines to figure out just how much fluid to apply and still get the record clean. I gradually used less and less and now there is no spillage and only a couple revoloutions with the vacume removes all the fluid.
 
Bristles made of paint spreaders are self cleaning when you use a bit of detergent in the solution. They also allow air flow.

But I'm going to try a wand with no velvet or bristles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom