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Reading Notes

Klipshman

Klipshman

Well-Known Member
I've had an urge to learn how to play the cello lately. I use to play drums back in my much younger years but that didn't require learning how to read music.

Does anyone know how to read music? If so, is it a difficult or time consuming thing only coming with years of experience?
 
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Well, think about it like this: Millions of 10-13 year old kids in Middle School learn how to do it.

:dunno:

I mean, you aren't going to be sight reading Bach in two weeks, but as far as learning what notes are where on the instrument vs on paper, that's WAY easier than learning, say, 50 random words in Spanish.

One of the challenging things about cello, if you continue to progress, is music is notated in two clefs. Bass clef and tenor clef so you actually have to learn two though the upper stuff won't be mastered in the first couple years or anything like that.
 
That all looks like hieroglyphics. I learned French in school but music looks like ancient Babylonian symbols to me.

I would have thought with the cello you wouldn't need to be concerned about the tenor clef-only the bass. I watched a couple of YouTube symphonies last night and wondered how the musicians knew when to start and when to stop or how soft to play. Everyone in the orchestra was reading music but the one doing the violin concerto. I've never seen a concerto where the main violin/cello musician read music. I found that rather odd.
 
The best way is to find a teacher, take a few lessons and see if that is really what you want to do.
 
Klipshman said:
I would have thought with the cello you wouldn't need to be concerned about the tenor clef-only the bass.
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Well, the cello has a pretty big range. The upper-most notes would be 15 lines above the bass clef. I wouldn't let this stop me from learning as those notes aren't used very often for non-solo purposes.

Klipshman said:
I watched a couple of YouTube symphonies last night and wondered how the musicians knew when to start and when to stop or how soft to play.
Click to expand...

In addition to pitch and duration to hold a given note, there are rests written and dynamic references. It sounds much more complicated than it really is. You learn the clef, you learn what the key signature means, you learn how to read and count time signatures and based on that, how long each notated note is held. You learn incidental notes.

Learning the basics of reading music is less complex than diagraming sentences. I think a lot of people that have learned a given instrument without knowing how to read music develop an aversion to learning to read. Guitar, bass and keyboards the context of rock, pop and country definitely don't require much knowledge of written music. If you want to learn most any other instrument with an interest in most musics written before 1930 or so, being able to read music is absolutely invaluable.

Klipshman said:
Everyone in the orchestra was reading music but the one doing the violin concerto. I've never seen a concerto where the main violin/cello musician read music. I found that rather odd.
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With music that involved, it's somewhat understood that the featured musician knows the music forwards, backwards and can start any section at any moment. Most touring professional musicians have likely known the major concerti for their instruments for many years. Nobody can sight read music that complex.

I'm not trying to talk anyone into anything, but it's simply not nearly as complicated as many people think it is. Like I said, there are hundreds of thousands of kids as young as five or six years old that learn to read music every year and less than two or three percent of them are genius-level players. I'd say one can get the basics in a week or so and then learn the additional stuff as the complexity of the music requires. If you're just starting out on the instrument, you will have a long time to learn the more challenging stuff. For the first few weeks, you'll be playing open strings (four notes) and learning where to put your fingers while staying in one or two key signatures.
 
I'm always in awe at one of the great violin players, Ann-Sophie Mutter whom I've watched to several violin concertos. She's absolutely fantastic and I had to think she must have started at a very early age.

Truls Mork is another that's a great cello player and again, doesn't read any music doing the concertos. I never expect that level of experience but it would be nice to know where to put the fingers, which way to turn the bow, what strings to run the bow across, etc. Lots to learn.
 
Well, those two are in the top 10,000th of one percent. I wouldn't worry about keeping up with them just yet. Listen from afar and use that for inspiration.

Buy/borrow/rent a cello, get a starter book and tackle Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and Mary Had A Little Lamb before you try Schnittke's concerto or Kodaly's sonata. You can tackle those next year.

:D
 
I found a place about five miles down the road that teaches, sells and rents pianos, violins, viola, cello, organ and several other instruments as well as provide teachers for each. I think I'll make a trip over there and check things out.
 
Klipshman said:
I'm always in awe at one of the great violin players, Ann-Sophie Mutter whom I've watched to several violin concertos. She's absolutely fantastic and I had to think she must have started at a very early age.

Truls Mork is another that's a great cello player and again, doesn't read any music doing the concertos. I never expect that level of experience but it would be nice to know where to put the fingers, which way to turn the bow, what strings to run the bow across, etc. Lots to learn.
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I would imagine all the great musicians started as children, and their desire led them to dedicate enormous amounts of their lives to learning the instrument of choice. But there is no reason at all one cannot start later in life; it's just not that difficult. However, it IS difficult to teach oneself, because the notes do not look at all like the letters in a novel. But remember that the system of notation predates the general population being literate. The earlier suggestion to take a few lessons is excellent. Once you have a basic grasp of the fundamentals you'll be able to proceed at your leisure.

The soloists in concerti commonly don't read sheet music during performance, but most certainly DO read it during rehearsal, and when first learning a piece. I'm not aware of anybody that learns all the bits and pieces of a composition strictly by ear.
 
Mo doubt the ones doing the concerto be it violin or cello know that music front and back and inside out as well. They would have to to know when to start, stop or slow down and then speed up(schnell or allegro vs adagio). In that respect, I'll never arrive.
 
And actually, the top name soloists, while they don't typically conduct the orchestra themselves, they are in command of speed and when and how much to speed up and slow down. It's worked out between the soloist and the conductor before hand during rehearsals. And of course, in some musics, the soloist is the conductor.
 
For starters, find a good teacher if you can, at least for a few lessons. One that will explain the instrument to you, take the mysteries out of it, so you know exactly what you're getting into. Once you're on the path you can choose your own road without getting lost.
I learned to read, and my kids do too. They're both in a high school band that sometimes blows my mind. Got a year to kill? No, not every minute of it but about a half hour a day? If so, you will learn the basics of reading music, no problem. Learning the instrument, well that could be another story.
 
Time is what I have a lot of. Retired and no getting up till I'm ready...ditto going to bed. It's a marvelous feeling! I do plan on taking some lessons as I don't want to develop any bad habits early on as they have a tendency to stay with you.

I've just bought a Buescher Aristocrat Tenor Sax and plan on learning it. It was a dream of mine back in my 20's but never got around to it due to other pressing matters, like time in the service and college later. Now I have that time.

I think I can learn the sax better than the cello although that's down the road.
 
Actually, cello music is written in Bass, Tenor and Alto clefs. The other thing about non-fretted instruments like the violin, viola and cello is learning positions (1/2 thru 4th and there is a thumb position).

I started with the cello in my early thirties. One disadvantage as an adult learning the cello are extended positions where you are stretching between your 1st and 2nd or 4th finger; kinda like a piano player playing 10ths.

I love the cello.

When it comes to these instruments, learning the piano is your friend :yes:

And a good bow. The tone the cello produces is influenced by the bow and your bowing technique.


My favorite cellists were: Janos Starker, Mstislav Rostropovich and Paul Tortelier.

Find yourself a good teacher and have fun!


cratz2 said:
One of the challenging things about cello, if you continue to progress, is music is notated in two clefs. Bass clef and tenor clef so you actually have to learn two though the upper stuff won't be mastered in the first couple years or anything like that.
Click to expand...
 
I've read music since I was 9 (1967). What have I found over the years? :scratch2:

Most rock musicians (hell, mostly every musician that didn't play classical or jazz) play by ear, meaning they listen to a recording and emulate the song. Original songwriters understand chord theory and a bit of melodic stuff to add along, and listening to a ton of music will skill your ear to do most basic operations. :yes:

To have a real feel for what's actually going on, I use my years of classical training (I played music for 6 years before delving into playing rock despite being heavily immersed in it since the advent of The Beatles) to legitimize (or de-legitimize) the sounds being created around me. Value judgements, like evaluating gear, come subjectively and objectively, on the fly. :yes:

Communicating with ear musicians vs. trained players? :scratch2:

1) Ear players go more by feel, so I speak in vague terms that they can swallow without feeling looked-down-upon as lesser players. I use visual art analogies as well. :yes:

2) True musicians? I use extensive classic Italian terminology to convey complete meaning, leaving little to be interpreted. I expound on personally-held theories of rhythm, melody, and articulation, as well as many types of juxtapositions possible that often get glossed over by ear musicians. :yes:
 
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