Realistic Lab 400, Cart/Headshell gage dimension?

[Old Guy8]

Will be doing a setup of new Grado Gold2 cart in Technics headshell, for Realistic Lab 400.
I have a Technics style gage. Anyone know what the desired gage dimension should be for this TT?
I have a two point protractor, but using gage would be easier.
I don't find any negative feedback in the Grado Hum Database, for this table.

 

[DrTim]

If I understand right and you are asking about overhang, it's 49 mm.

 

[Montycat]

If I understand right and you are asking about overhang, it's 49 mm.

Not technically "overhang" as that is the distance of the stylus past the spindle in a straight line from the tonearm pivot and is usually more like 15 or so mm. The 49mm is a good shortcut to cartridge alignment and is of course the distance from the washer on the headshell to the stylus tip.

 

[Old Guy8]

Thanks, just what I needed. That's the right term. Dimension mounted on "Overhang Gauge".

The service manual only showed 15mm overhang, center of platter to stylus. Tough to measure.

 

[Old Guy8]

Not technically "overhang" as that is the distance of the stylus past the spindle in a straight line from the tonearm pivot and is usually more like 15 or so mm. The 49mm is a good shortcut to cartridge alignment and is of course the distance from the washer on the headshell to the stylus tip.

Thank you. Just what I needed.

 

[Montycat]

I don't doubt you are correct DrTim but I'm curious where you found that 49mm. It certainly could be 49 as that's a common measurement, but I don't see it in the manual.

Here's the overhang diagram from the manual.

 

[Montycat]

Thanks, just what I needed. That's the right term. Dimension mounted on "Overhang Gauge".

The service manual only showed 15mm overhang, center of platter to stylus. Tough to measure.
View attachment 1505738

I know! They are especially hard to measure if your tonearm isn't fully manual. Some 45 adapters (Marantz for example) have marks to help with this and some mats are marked. But if your tonearm butts up to the autoreturn trigger at the runout groove area, it is pretty darn impossible to measure at the spindle.

 

[Old Guy8]

I know! They are especially hard to measure if your tonearm isn't fully manual. Some 45 adapters (Marantz for example) have marks to help with this and some mats are marked. But if your tonearm butts up to the autoreturn trigger at the runout groove area, it is pretty darn impossible to measure at the spindle.

And the gauge has an arrow formed at the top. Assume it's to center the stylus. But my plastic gauge appears to have been deformed when made. So I'll set centered to mounting screws. And trial.
Thanks again.

 

[DrTim]

I once owned a Lab 400 and 49mm is what I used. Don't remember where I got that measurement from but it worked with alignment.

IIRC, the Realistic Labs were made by CEC and used the same overhang as Pioneer.

 

[Montycat]

Pioneer made a nice clear plastic gauge for their 49mm setup. What I would like see is a clear one with ruler style markings that covers a range, including 49 and the Technics standard 52.

 

[Old Guy8]

I once owned a Lab 400 and 49mm is what I used. Don't remember where I got that measurement from but it worked with alignment.

IIRC, the Realistic Labs were made by CEC and used the same overhang as Pioneer.

Thanks for info.

 

[Old Guy8]

Revisiting aligning another cart on Lab 400:
Aligning with Baerwald 2 point protractor. I'm quite a bit longer than 49mm, and protractor says to go longer?
I'm questioning that Lab 400 is 49mm gage dimension. Don't yet know where it will end up. What a PITA.

 

[Montycat]

Many Japanese turntables used those shortcut alignment gauges and they usually were closer to a Stevenson alignment. Baerwald was not the norm for sure and definitely entails moving the cartridge much further out. Choose one or the other; you cant do both.

 

[Old Guy8]

Many Japanese turntables used those shortcut alignment gauges and they usually were closer to a Stevenson alignment. Baerwald was not the norm for sure and definitely entails moving the cartridge much further out. Choose one or the other; you cant do both.

Interesting. Maybe I don't have a clear understanding of alignment minutia. I do remember that Stevenson protractors are usually mentioned with Japanese tables.
I don't have a Stevenson protractor. Maybe I should just accept the 49mm dimenson mentioned in this thread and let it go at that. I don't have the original gage that came with table. Manual doesn't verify it's 49mm.
Thanks for response, Monty

 

[WaynerN]

Why don't you downloard ConradH's software that will print you out a real nice arc for doing any kind of alignment you want (Stevenson, Lofgren A (Baerwald), Lofgren B.

Here is the link, its the 3rd one down. Just enter the pivot to spindle distance and pick an alignment you want.

http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm

According to Monycat's drawing, your spindle to pivot distance would be 205mm (220 (overall length) minus the overhang of 15mm = 205.

 

[Old Guy8]

Why don't you downloard ConradH's software that will print you out a real nice arc for doing any kind of alignment you want (Stevenson, Lofgren A (Baerwald), Lofgren B.

Here is the link, its the 3rd one down. Just enter the pivot to spindle distance and pick an alignment you want.

http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm

According to Monycat's drawing, your spindle to pivot distance would be 205mm (220 (overall length) minus the overhang of 15mm = 205.

Thanks, Wayner. Will check that out.

 

[Lavane]

Thanks, Wayner. Will check that out.

In bought and repaired a LAB 400 for my son. For fun I put a 49mm gauge on it to see where the factory cartridge was set at. 49mm was it. You should be fine with that over hange.

 

[Old Guy8]

In bought and repaired a LAB 400 for my son. For fun I put a 49mm gauge on it to see where the factory cartridge was set at. 49mm was it. You should be fine with that over hange.

Thanks Lavane. How does your son like the 400? I found mine in '15, like new. It's a nice unit.

 

[Lavane]

He likes it. I liked it. If he hadn't needed a new deck I would have kept it. They seem to hold up well for a full auto table.

 

[Old Guy8]

He likes it. I liked it. If he hadn't needed a new deck I would have kept it. They seem to hold up well for a full auto table.

I've had a LP Gear Vivid Microline in that original M91. Then Grado Gold2, Grado ME+ mono. And now a M95 with LPGear ED stylus. Each has done well on it.