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Realistic Lab 400 vs. Pioneer Pl-12d

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HiFiLoFi Raf

New Member
Hi all,

I’m relatively new to the hifi world, and new to this forum (although I’ve been reading your posts for awhile). My current set up: Pioneer sx-550 coupled to a a Pl-12d (with an Ortofon Blue). I came across a Realistic Lab 400 recently, and wondering what your thoughts are on these 2 tables. They both are intro tables that punch above their weight class. Wondering if it makes any sense to switch to the Realistic, which is gorgeous! Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.
 
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The Lab400 is a better table. Better s/n ratio, less rumble, pitch adjustment, direct drive. That doesn't mean you will like it better.

My first TT was a PL-12D. I still have it, though not in use. I did an "overhaul" on it several years ago (new platter bearing, new oil, new foam dampers in the springs, new belt, etc). Finding new belts of the correct width and thickness is difficult.
 
I bought a LAB-400 for my son last year. It came with a Realistic branded Shure M91ED cartridge. I almost didn't give it to him. Its been working perfectly and gets daily use. Its a solid built CEC made deck. I liked it. The LAB-400 is direct drive.
The Pioneer us belt drive, yes?
 
spark1 said:
The Lab400 is a better table. Better s/n ratio, less rumble, pitch adjustment, direct drive. That doesn't mean you will like it better.

My first TT was a PL-12D. I still have it, though not in use. I did an "overhaul" on it several years ago (new platter bearing, new oil, new foam dampers in the springs, new belt, etc). Finding new belts of the correct width and thickness is difficult.
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Pitch adjustment - that’s very compelling. I’ve done new oil and new belt, but not the springs/dampers. It’s on my list.
 
Lavane said:
I bought a LAB-400 for my son last year. It came with a Realistic branded Shure M91ED cartridge. I almost didn't give it to him. Its been working perfectly and gets daily use. Its a solid built CEC made deck. I liked it. The LAB-400 is direct drive.
The Pioneer us belt drive, yes?
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Thanks. Yes, the Pioneer is a belt drive. I just picked up a NOS realistic RXP3 (M104E) cartridge with RSP3 stylus. I assume they can be fitted to the LAB-400?
 
HiFiLoFi Raf said:
Thanks. Yes, the Pioneer is a belt drive. I just picked up a NOS realistic RXP3 (M104E) cartridge with RSP3 stylus. I assume they can be fitted to the LAB-400?
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Yes. That is a T4P cartridge, but I think it comes with the adapter for mounting on a standard 1/2" headshell.

Generally, I avoid using P-mount carts and adapters on standard headshells, but it should work fine.
 
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The belt I got from him/them (several years ago) was thicker than the original, resulting in slightly higher speed. The seller believed, at least at that time, that belt thickness is irrelevant to speed/RPM.

He did accept its return with no problems.
 
spark1 said:
Yes. That is a T4P cartridge, but I think it comes with the adapter for mounting on a standard 1/2" headshell.

Generally, I avoid using P-mount carts and adapters on standard headshells, but it should work fine.
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You can probably find an M75 or M91 at a decent price. I bought one of the AT3600 cartridges with an elliptical stylus mounted on a head shell for less than 50 smackers. There is a long thread on these in this forum. The cartridge alone with conical stylus can be had dirt cheap. I bought one with the elliptical stylus and like it. Its not as detailed as the Nagaoka cartridge, but plenty of bang for the buck.
 
He already has the Realistic cart. If stylus is in good shape, it is a very good one. If not, he can replace it...same as would be recommended with buying an old M75 or M91.
 
As others have noted above, the PL-12D is belt driven and the LAB 400 is Direct Drive. The LAB 400 is the superior table...provided there are no issues with it! And, we all love pictures, so here they are!
 

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I have never had or used a Lab 400. But, I do have a PL12DII that I bought brand new. It has the original empire cartridge on it. The speed is dead on. There is not (after 40+ years) any detectable rumble. So, I am just a little skeptical that the Realistic is a better table. Good luck with your decision
 
For an older full auto the LAB-400 seems to hold up very well. I have seen a couple speed issues in a couple posts, but were resolved. The one I bought had a wobbly platter. Before I picked it up I bought a new motor from a donor deck just incase. It turned out the three screws on the bottom of the motor housing were loose. Retightened the screws and its fine now. I really didn't want to let go of it, but I had promised it to my son. I'm always looking at local listing for another one or even a LAB-300 belt drive.
 
peerson said:
I have never had or used a Lab 400. But, I do have a PL12DII that I bought brand new. It has the original empire cartridge on it. The speed is dead on. There is not (after 40+ years) any detectable rumble. So, I am just a little skeptical that the Realistic is a better table. Good luck with your decision
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I’ve been very happy with my PL12D. No complaints at all. And a good-looking table, as well. (Just wish it had an automatic return.)
 
mfenberg said:
As others have noted above, the PL-12D is belt driven and the LAB 400 is Direct Drive. The LAB 400 is the superior table...provided there are no issues with it! And, we all love pictures, so here they are!
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Here’s my current set-up:
 

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