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Realistic LAB Series - are all created equal?

Good news, my $5 begrimed LAB 420 barn find plays. Pitch pots very dirty. It needs a new mat, new feet, and it needs the arm rest. It had nicotine grime galore, it now looks very decent and nothing earthshaking to finish it off properly. I suspect some Organ Donor parts queens will get me finished and nice looking. It sounds great. I hope to find a period correct headshell. Question to the AK turntable brain trust. Does the Lab 400 hinges for the dust cover fit?, mine won't stay up. Or is there a remedy for mine? Thanks! I like it better than the Pioneer PL 530 I used to own (the auto-return failed and had some mechanism damage)
 
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MCM_Fan said:
The top deck and controls are different, but the tonearm on that Lab 390 is identical to the one on my MCS 6601, which was made by Panasonic and shares many parts with the Technics SL-2000. The MCS 6601 is a nice, inexpensive, reliable, semi-automatic, direct drive turntable.

The Technics SL-D series used a different tonearm.
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I think last pre T4p Panasonic/Technics SL-D202 components, some minor styling differences. Functionally the same, a very good Technics basic DD which performs nice. Which sums up the LAB 390, another LAB series I rate highly. Of the changers, the ELAC/Miracord built changers and the top end BSR Professional series model are very good to superb.
 
DustyOldPile said:
To answer your question directly, NO...not all Lab XXX turntables are created equal. Radio Shack sourced their turntables from a number of suppliers at a number of price points and quality levels. Many came from CEC, BSR/MacDonald, Garrard, Elac/Miracord and perhaps even others. The CEC tables were great, I personally love the Elac "Lab 60" and would love to get my hands on one. The BSR's and Garrards are pretty obvious as to their heritage. Few of the LAB series tables were complete turds and the quality level of the CEC's matched the offerings of other Japanese tables from an equivalent model year. The Elacs were the best of the changers, followed by the Garrards and BSR.
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I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I have seen references to LAB TT's over the years and didn't pay too much attention to them. A week ago I picked up a Garrard LAB55B TT and I am trying to decide what to do with it. Is LAB a type of TT or are they a manufacturer who sourced out their TT's to others?
 
Wolverine said:
I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I have seen references to LAB TT's over the years and didn't pay too much attention to them. A week ago I picked up a Garrard LAB55B TT and I am trying to decide what to do with it. Is LAB a type of TT or are they a manufacturer who sourced out their TT's to others?
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I'm not sure where the terminology comes from, but Garrard lab =/= Realistic lab. Different companies. Garrard made their own tables in the UK, while realistic outsourced to various manufacturers, such as BSR in the UK (Lab-56, Lab-58) Elac Miracord in West Germany (usually sold as such), CEC in Japan (lab-400/420, I think 440 and maybe 450?) and Mitsubishi (Lab-500). I'm not sure who made the 390/395 and 2** tables.

Cheers,
Nathan
 
I've been lurking this thread as an owner of a LAB-400. It's currently "out of the lineup", but now I thinking of putting it back in rotation.

Kent - are the hinges "blown out"? i.e. is the reason that the dust cover doesn't stay up because the hinge springs have broken out from the plastic housing? If so, check out this post for a possible repair.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/i-fixed-my-lab-420-shut-off-problem.206847/

When I picked up my 400, it was missing both the dust cover and hinges. I managed to find a replacement, but in doing so discovered that the 400 apparently had 2 different style hinges. One is plastic and prone to "blow out" syndrome. The other is metal, so basically impervious to BOS. Here's some pictures. Don't know if either of these will work with a 420 though.

Plastic hinge:

11.JPG
Metal hinge:

22.JPG
 
Upon further reflection though, this would necessitate different methods of mounting the hinges to the dust cover (meaning 2 different dust covers). I suppose that maybe it's possible the Realistic updated the hinges at some point, requiring changes to the dustcover (creating slots for the hinge tabs to fit in). Or maybe I'm just speculating and talking out of my behind again :blah:
 
saunadog said:
Upon further reflection though, this would necessitate different methods of mounting the hinges to the dust cover (meaning 2 different dust covers). I suppose that maybe it's possible the Realistic updated the hinges at some point, requiring changes to the dustcover (creating slots for the hinge tabs to fit in). Or maybe I'm just speculating and talking out of my behind again :blah:
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The metal hinges use a little metal clip that goes on that tab that then had screws to mount the actual dust cover. My CEC table has the same design.
 
EngineerNate said:
I'm not sure where the terminology comes from, but Garrard lab =/= Realistic lab. Different companies. Garrard made their own tables in the UK, while realistic outsourced to various manufacturers, such as BSR in the UK (Lab-56, Lab-58) Elac Miracord in West Germany (usually sold as such), CEC in Japan (lab-400/420, I think 440 and maybe 450?) and Mitsubishi (Lab-500). I'm not sure who made the 390/395 and 2** tables.

Cheers,
Nathan
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Just marketing fluff from two different companies.
 
tubewade said:
Yes. That's correct, and why I chose that deck.
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I bought a 500 new when they came out. I never could get it to behave. No matter what phono preamp or amplifier I used it always started to howl at slightly higher volumes. And the woofers would start huffing too. No matter what I connected it to or how I arranged everything it did the same thing. I finely left it in a garage when I moved. Really too bad since it looked nice and was mechanically smooth operating.
 
I have a LAB-420. Got it with the blown-out hinges. Linn has a replacement hinge for their turntables, still available from House of Linn. It fits perfectly. Done.
 
saunadog said:
I've been lurking this thread as an owner of a LAB-400. It's currently "out of the lineup", but now I thinking of putting it back in rotation.

Kent - are the hinges "blown out"? i.e. is the reason that the dust cover doesn't stay up because the hinge springs have broken out from the plastic housing? If so, check out this post for a possible repair.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/i-fixed-my-lab-420-shut-off-problem.206847/

When I picked up my 400, it was missing both the dust cover and hinges. I managed to find a replacement, but in doing so discovered that the 400 apparently had 2 different style hinges. One is plastic and prone to "blow out" syndrome. The other is metal, so basically impervious to BOS. Here's some pictures. Don't know if either of these will work with a 420 though.

Plastic hinge:

View attachment 1043416
Metal hinge:

View attachment 1043417
Click to expand...

The hinges are "Blown Out" which is exactly my issue. For now I have the hinges moved backwards, and I remove and replace my cover AR style, on and off without hinges.
 
MCM_Fan said:
The top deck and controls are different, but the tonearm on that Lab 390 is identical to the one on my MCS 6601, which was made by Panasonic and shares many parts with the Technics SL-2000. The MCS 6601 is a nice, inexpensive, reliable, semi-automatic, direct drive turntable.

The Technics SL-D series used a different tonearm.
Click to expand...

And I'd call that a near SL-D later model, my newly scored MCS 6603 Semi-Automatic DD is definitely SL-D202 in how it's made. Dead ringer. $69 eBay buy it now, beautiful condition, needed some clean up and minor maintenance. Like my $5 Realistic LAB 420 barn find, an awesome performer, well built, easy maintained. I love it also.
 
For what its worth I did get sagging hinges to come back to life using wire brad nails. The springs inside lose their tension for holding up the lid, but the hinge holder piece that sits inside the lid and the body are pretty much steel "holders" of the ends of the spring inside. I used a screwdriver to wedge the end of the spring up inside, and shoved a clipped off brad to push them out a tad. I can't remember the size, but it added enough oomph back to keep thje lid up.
 
The Realistic LAB 400 is an awesome TT. If you are not into the wood grain, try a Taya DP-550. Same thing as the LAB 400 (made by CEC), but in a dark grey color. Very nice looking!!
 

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Ok Folks ...

Long time no post.

I have two very nice turntables ..

A LAB 440 and a LAB 500. If you all were going to keep just one ... which would you keep an why? Thanks
 
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