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Recommendations for a mid-priced tube preamp

lattiboy

lattiboy

Well-Known Member
Hello,

I’m looking for something a few steps up from one of those FX Audio $50 tube preamps, but still under $500 (new or used). Two outputs would be nice; but not necessary. Also, the ability to run in passive mode. Totally fine with Chinese brands as I’ve generally had great luck with their stuff.

Let me know what you all think!

PS had the Schiit Saga but found it added absolutely nothing to the sound in passive or active mode. Would prefer something with more “character” where the tubes actually impart something.
 
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lattiboy said:
I’m looking for something a few steps up from one of those FX Audio $50 tube preamps, but still under $500 (new or used). Two outputs would be nice; but not necessary. Also, the ability to run in passive mode. Totally fine with Chinese brands as I’ve generally had great luck with their stuff.

Let me know what you all think!

PS had the Schiit Saga but found it added absolutely nothing to the sound in passive or active mode. Would prefer something with more “character” where the tubes actually impart something.
Click to expand...
Just curious, which version of the Saga did you have? The current Saga+ can be switched between passive and a tube buffer mode, which provides no gain. One of the main points of passive is that it doesn't add anything.

I've never heard a buffer but some comments seem to mirror yours (that they add nothing to the sound) and others say they add a bit but not nearly as much as an active stage, which has gain. Of course, many people say they prefer preamps that don't add anything to the sound, even if they do have gain.

Two questions: Do you need gain or are you looking to add some "tube sound" without any gain? What amp will you be using it with?
 
Tinkerbelle said:
Well, I have no personal experience with this Frenzel preamp but it's around your price range, looks well made, has line and Phono inputs and is made in the USA.
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Specs have the output impedance as 100k ohms. :yikes:
I emailed them in June asking about it and never received a reply. :dunno:

Edit: I sent Frenzel another email and they answered on a holiday, yes its output impedance is 100,000 ohms.
 
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FlaCharlie said:
Just curious, which version of the Saga did you have? The current Saga+ can be switched between passive and a tube buffer mode, which provides no gain. One of the main points of passive is that it doesn't add anything.

I've never heard a buffer but some comments seem to mirror yours (that they add nothing to the sound) and others say they add a bit but not nearly as much as an active stage, which has gain. Of course, many people say they prefer preamps that don't add anything to the sound, even if they do have gain.

Two questions: Do you need gain or are you looking to add some "tube sound" without any gain? What amp will you be using it with?
Click to expand...

I had the OG Saga and while it looked pretty I couldn’t discern any audible difference with it in active or passive. Changed to a vintage tube and still no dice.

I am running a Topling D90 (or similarly specd DAC/pre) into a Denon POA2200 power amp. It’s incredibly detailed and powerful, but very cold. Looking for tube character over detail.
 
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Another you might try is on ebay there's a company that makes clones.
Search 'based on Conrad Johnson' or 'based on Rogue' etc.
Cheap enough to try...
 
opnly bafld said:
Specs have the output impedance as 100k ohms. :yikes:
I emailed them in June asking about it and never received a reply. :dunno:

Edit: I sent Frenzel another email and they answered on a holiday, yes its output impedance is 100,000 ohms.
Click to expand...
I know that in theory there should be a 1:10 ratio between the output impedance of the preamp and the input impedance of the amp. What I don't know is if it makes an audible difference.

SS and Class D amps typically have an input impedance in the 10k to 20k range and tube amps are typically 100k. So, on paper, the Frenzel wouldn't be a good match for either type.

That said, lot's of people use the little FX preamps, which have an output impedance of ~4.3k, with Class D and SS amps and they seem to function OK but even that is better than the mismatch presented by the Frenzel.

So maybe such a mismatch isn't audible???? :dunno:
 
run_around said:
No passive but for under 500 it's hard to beat a Xiang Sheng 728A.
Here's a couple of threads about it:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/opinions-on-xiangsheng-728a-pre-amp.926890/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/xiangsheng-728a-what-gives.601056/
Not sure if there still being made but this place seems to have few new/open boxes left:
https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/in...tion=1&categories_id=&keyword=XIANGSHENG+728A
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yeah, that’s come up repeatedly for me in my searching. I’m not sure if the tone controls and other upgrades are worth the extra cost or if I should buy the Psvane tube bundle. With the upgrades and shipping it’s close to $500
 
One of the things I looked for in my tube pre is the least amount of stuff in the signal path as possible. I only have on/off, volume, and selector. All wiring is point to point except the small boards for the power supply.
Some of these amps with all the features scare me.
Something to think about.
 
lattiboy said:
.... had the Schiit Saga but found it added absolutely nothing to the sound in passive or active mode...
Click to expand...

lattiboy said:
.... I’m not sure if the tone controls and other upgrades are worth the extra cost ...
Click to expand...

FWIW, I went in the other direction. I took the preamp completely out of the signal chain as an experiment and preferred the sound by a substantial margin. My source(s) were connected to the power amp directly. Now...in all fairness my preamp perhaps needed new capacitors or something, but the improvement in sound quality was not subtle.

Now I am using a preamp for purposes of volume control, switching between sources and impedance-matching. No tone controls. I sure do not miss them.

That said, I understand your interest in adding tube magic to your system. You may very well find the sound you are looking for in a tube pre. I've done my share of rolling 12AX7 preamp tubes and there are differences which can be satisfying.
 
FlaCharlie said:
I know that in theory there should be a 1:10 ratio between the output impedance of the preamp and the input impedance of the amp. What I don't know is if it makes an audible difference.

SS and Class D amps typically have an input impedance in the 10k to 20k range and tube amps are typically 100k. So, on paper, the Frenzel wouldn't be a good match for either type.

So maybe such a mismatch isn't audible???? :dunno:
Click to expand...

It can be very audible, but it depends.............on the amplifier and the interconnect cables, the bottom can be a little light (adjust the subwoofer or twist the bass control) and the top can be rolled off (can't hear that high anyway).
I don't trust most folks to notice these things (myself included sometimes).
 
If you ever feel the need for tone controls, you can always add a Shiit Loki tone control box with bypass. There are three to choose from now from what I've seen. I keep an integrated amplifier in my main system for those recordings that need all the EQ help you can give them.
 
I had zero experience when it came to building anything tube related. I had re-capped a preamp, same with numerous speakers, but that's It. Then I bought a Bottlehead moreplay and went for it. It was a blast to build and sounds frickn great to my non-tube qualified tube ears.
 
If the top of the line Accuphase pre-amp with out a phono section is over $30,000. Does that make a $12000 Mcintosh pre-amp a middle priced Pre-amp? I thought I paid a fortune when I bought my C-29 back in the 70's for less than $800.00 dollars. My 2001 1/2 Ram 2500 diesel cost me $27000. In 2019 its replacement was $62,000. Chevy is already selling pick ups at or above $100,000. Makes me feel very fortunate to have found two current new mono Mcintosh Power amps for $6000.00. Yes, they were display units and mine our unique renditions. IMG_0214.jpg
 
lms said:
I had zero experience when it came to building anything tube related. I had re-capped a preamp, same with numerous speakers, but that's It. Then I bought a Bottlehead moreplay and went for it. It was a blast to build and sounds frickn great to my non-tube qualified tube ears.
Click to expand...

I looked at Bottlehead Moreplay too. I have Paramours and they were fairly easy to assemble, though nice to have some soldering skilz as it's all point to point. Which is a good thing. Instructions are easy to follow.
Nothing like putting together your own gear!
 
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